Sorry, I'm with kingjohn on this one.
Obsession is the right word. I'm interested in the Indo-Europeans too but, I'm equally interested in the population genetics of other peoples and periods of history, and more interested in history itself. I'm also passionately interested in, and post about, music and art and theater and language etc. I'm not obsessed with the population genetics of any group, not even Italians, and I only get emotional when someone is t-rolling my people, and that includes both Italians and Americans.
What else to call it but obsession when grown men spend what sometimes seems like every waking moment trying to get every nuance of the origin, spread, genetics, yDna etc. etc. right? Why does it matter so much? Why is it such an emotional issue for some people whether they went to the Near East or not?
I beg to differ too that they're only interested in steppe in Anatolia because they're just interested in linguistics. You can't be that naive, Ygorcs. They want the Mitanni to have brought steppe to other areas of the Near East too, and they used to make it much more clear that the reason was to claim the accomplishments of all those people for their own ancestors. Some idiot once told me the Sumerians were probably Indo-Europeans, a well-respected idiot by others, btw. Why do you think tens of thousands of posts were written trying to prove that the ancient Greeks and Romans were Nordics? Maybe you weren't around then?
Scratch the surface of obsessions and you usually find something emotional or some agenda or something really sinister. I spent a chunk of my professional life looking at the dark underbelly in human beings and I'm telling you it's true. In the case of this issue, it's usually something racist imo, no matter whether it's a Pole or an Italian. They hide it on some sites, but on others, with others of their kind, they let it rip. What they write on the dark net must be completely and utterly insane. I'm glad I don't go there. It might disturb my sleep more than Covid.
I remember R1a/R1b wars over who was "more" or "less" Indo-European. I remember, before it became politically incorrect, the boasting about the "superior" Indo-Europeans, the Conan the Barbarians of pre-history who killed all the men in their path and stole all the women, the celebration of the "blonde-blue-eyed cowboys" of the steppes conquering dark peoples and on and on. As I said, maybe you weren't around, but I was. If it weren't so pathetic it would be laughable. Adolescent fantasies of weak men with a less than adequate manhood usually, like those of Hitler and the maimed and diminutive Goebels, fantasies designed to redress the feelings of ostracism, perhaps, of personal or ethnic humiliation? Who knows.
I've been reading the writings of people like this for ten years, and that's my conclusion. You're welcome to your own opinion.
As to the specifics of these papers, if I'm getting the facts straight, we have an R1b1a2 in southern Anatolia with no steppe, a Barcin Chalcolithic sample in whom your model shows 6% of something found on the steppe, and some Central Asian admixed person or people, who may or may not have been Mitanni, with barely any steppe. As to the latter, given they may have come from BMAC and the Reich Lab paper on India said there was no admixture there, why would they have it?
If that's it, I don't think it's enough to prove an incursion down through the Caucasus from the steppe. It may have happened, or it may not; I don't really care. If it did happen it left nothing behind, not even the language eventually. The "Huns" at least left that, although their other impact was as negligible as that of the steppe in the Near East. All the cultural accomplishments, the "civilization", which is the only important thing, went in the other direction. That's what it has to do with "civilization", that and the fact that for the worst of these kinds of people it's always been about cultural appropriation of the worst kind. Anyway, since you posted your opinion, I thought I'd post mine.
Live and let live, and we'll see what future ancient dna tells us.
OT002
