Gun Debate Tells Us Who Liberals Really Are

Ghost

Ghost

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You know, Rush Limbaugh said on his program April 27, It`s great to see this. The media, the left all over this country is just fit to be tied. Governor Bush signed a bill providing the right of citizens to fire their weapons in self-defense, Force Against Force bill. We talked about this a couple weeks ago before it was signed into law and I told you what was going to happen here the left was going to go absolutely nuts because now all of a sudden citizens don`t have to take it. Citizens in Florida can fire back, citizens can shoot back.


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042705/content/rush_is_right.guest.html
 
Great. Rush Limbaugh. W. Shootouts in the streets. What a fricken wacko ridden wild west fantasy we are trying to live in. It shows us what kind of Rambo fantasy conservatives really live in.

Liberal. Free. Happy. Don't shoot me.
 
well ima be gone in 4 weeks (back in harmless germany) and then you can legislate what you want

i dont understand that bill. does it mean if somebody fires at you you can shoot back (kill him?) for self defense? what if a police officer shoots at you? can you fight back?


hm
 
Shas said:
well ima be gone in 4 weeks (back in harmless germany) and then you can legislate what you want

i dont understand that bill. does it mean if somebody fires at you you can shoot back (kill him?) for self defense? what if a police officer shoots at you? can you fight back?


hm
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Strange isn't it. We give the police the authority to shoot someone in self-defense, but it doesn't seem that way with civilians. You could fire back, but you'll probably be charged for attempted murder, or murder. Then again, I really don't know. You're leaving in 4 weeks? How wonderful for you. :)
 
Ghost is talking about the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida. Previous Florida law only provided lethal force as a LAST option (unless you were in your own house.) Provided you could attempt escape, or reasonably use less than lethal force if attacked outside your house- the use of lethal force could have resulted in a manslaughter charge. Now, the law in Florida allows you to use lethal force even if escape, or a less lethal option is available. It made my day. I guess it was already okay to kill intruders in your own house.
 
As an American and someone who served in the USMC from 1982-1990 and then worked as a cop for one year, the mindset behind this law worries me. During the time I was in the military I did have to fight to stop enemy forces from killing me and my fellow Marines. During the time I was a cop I never once had to fire my weapon other than for training.

There are too many people in the US who will see this as the "right to shoot" even if their life is not in danger. There are thieves who will tell you that they would rather RUN if they encounter a home owner. They are crimminals and deserve to be in prison, but they do not deserve to be shot by an untrained civilian.

This will be a bad law and cause far more death than we really need here. We are already one of the top most violent places in the world - soemthing I am NOT happy at all proud of.
 
American names for miliary operations, laws and such things are so funny. It feels like they belong more in a video-game than in real life. But maybe that's just because i'm not a native english speaker.
 
I'm so glad I visited the US about 12 years ago. It was probably safer then. I did see one sign in Tuson that really cracked me up. It was in a park and it said that 'The discharging of firearms in this park is illegal'. So I take it you could walk out of the park to shoot someone?
 
The whole "I'm the only one who can keep my farmstead safe from invaders." mentality is still VERY strong over here. There is a town in the south where every adult is REQUIRED to own and carry a firearm unless exempted!

They don't have a whole lot of fights there...
 
Statistically crime is way down in the United States from its peak in the 1980's. The murder rate is about half of what it was. In some areas like Atlanta and Houston, the murder rate is down over 70%.

We keep concentrating on these really really rare but well publicized crimes like freeway shootings and school shootings that account for a small percentage of the gun violence in the country. Domestic violence and suicide are far more common.
 
Im not anti-gun but i do want better laws about it. Most of the time its trigger happy gangs and WAY over stressed workers that go killing, though every once in a bluemoon someone will just snap. If the government sets better laws, like gun tracking, the US will be safer. I go out a few times a month for practice(tiss my right) and i havent thought of driving around and shooting people.

This issue is a little strange, granted it makes theives shake in there boots, but at what cost?
 
Ghost-
I agree with most of what you say, but there doesn't seem to be an easy reason or a good solution to why we as a people keep shooting each other. Beyond the gangs (who are for the most part hopeless, losers with little hope or respect for life) and stressed out workers, there are people that don't like to lose barfights, or get passed or cut off on the freeway, men that don't like to lose their women, angry lost guys that wipe out their own family, scared people that fire at shadows in their houses, or people who eat their own bullets. Guns make many of these conflicts permanent, where a fistfight or yelling match is much less medically demanding.

I don't have any good answers.
 
Ikyoto said:
As an American and someone who served in the USMC from 1982-1990 and then worked as a cop for one year, the mindset behind this law worries me. During the time I was in the military I did have to fight to stop enemy forces from killing me and my fellow Marines. During the time I was a cop I never once had to fire my weapon other than for training.

There are too many people in the US who will see this as the "right to shoot" even if their life is not in danger. There are thieves who will tell you that they would rather RUN if they encounter a home owner. They are crimminals and deserve to be in prison, but they do not deserve to be shot by an untrained civilian.

This will be a bad law and cause far more death than we really need here. We are already one of the top most violent places in the world - soemthing I am NOT happy at all proud of.
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That's not saying a lot for your country. You assume americans are mindless and all they wanna do is go around shooting people. Give um a gun and BANG everybody dies. People arnt like that. You're just scared. Where I live everybody has guns and nobody has ever shot anybody else. It's a shock if there is ever a crime here. Most places are like that. Where guns are allowed there is low crime .. where guns are taken away there is high crime.
 
Apri1 said:
Where guns are allowed there is low crime .. where guns are taken away there is high crime.
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How very true. Just look at what happend in Australia after guns were outlawed. I think crimes (maybe utilizing a firearm) went up more than 46% in the first year! Maybe some of our Australian friends can elaborate more on this.

When a criminal thinks one may be armed, he usually thinks twice about accosting that person or entering that persons house. If he knows he/she is probably unarmed, he will usually feel secure in robbing them or breaking into their house-especially if he has a firearm that was obtained illegally.

I think someone once said that, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns, or something to that effect.
 
On an interesting side note. I saw a study somewhere a little while back, done by biologists and sociologists and some other -ists, and the findings were that according to natural law (i.e. taking into account size, social structure, resource division, habitat) there were seven times the amount of human beings alive than there should be. So if humans were just another animal existing on the planet, like a bear, the population should have "corrected" itself down to about a seventh of it's size. I always think of things like this when I hear about random violence, maybe its just nature taking a hand in population reduction.
 
haha i love you guys

I heard that too about australia. And I know if I where a criminal I would not rob somebody who I thought may have a gun. =)
 
What a fascinating discussion; I esp. liked the humour when apr1 called ikyoto 'scared'; o, the power of the mind ! :clap:
My favourite quotes are:
Apri1 said:
You're just scared... Where guns are allowed there is low crime .. where guns are taken away there is high crime.
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PachiPro said:
I think someone once said that, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns, or something to that effect.
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Frank D. White said:
There are a lot of places in the world where people are not allowed to own firearms and they are not as safe there as they would be in most of the US.
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To keep under control the downsides of owning a gun, it might be a good idea to make fire-arms education part of the compulsory curriculum early on. Not enough information may lead to all those unwanted accidents that's causing much opposition against the right to bear arms. I also think the number of domestic violence for example 1. husband hits wife 2. wife hits husband 3. a senior hits a junior 4. a junior hits a senior will go down for fear of getting shot either in retaliation or self-defense. How could it not ! :box:
 
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For Me....

a loaded gun in my back pocket or on my hip is just to make me feel safe. I've carried one for 31 years and never had to fire it, and don't plan to ever have to fire it. I just feel better knowing it's there if I need it and like the idea I have a right to do so. There are a lot of places in the world where people are not allowed to own firearms and they are not as safe there as they would be in most of the US. I think people judge guns too much from what they see on movies and TV, not day to day real life?

Frank

:souka:
 
There were stories going around that a guy was arrested for raping a 7 year old. Then it was the rape and murder of a seven year old. Then it was three rapes and a murder. There were rumors of rape at the convention center- gangs of roving black thugs targeting tourists. But to date none of these tales has been substantiated. There have been physical assaults, shootings, muggings- all with witnesses, victims and sometimes perpetrators confirmed. New Orleans police chief Eddie Compass said last night: "We don't have any substantiated rapes. We will investigate if the individuals come forward." And while many claim they happened, no witnesses, survivors or survivors' relatives have come forward. Allen Breed, an associated press reporter, could not find anything at either location, in spite of having interviewed hundreds that were there and visiting both scenes.

I would support a female only gun law. (Men tend to be overly agressive and repeatedly apply poor judgement.)

Also, a gun might make you feel safe, but in truth it may make you only a target. You got a six shooter and you're surrounded by a hundred desperate people feeling like you gotta shoot someone- who do you choose? (Tom Cruise had a scene like this in the last War of the Worlds) After you plug six of your fellow refugees, you could throw it at the crowd like they do in the movies.
 
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