Why I Can’t Stay Silent: The Narrative Around Ancient Civilizations Is Upside Down

qh777

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Bear with me here, this is going to be a long post as I have been ruminating on this for awhile now. And when I mean awhile I don't mean a month. This has been something that has troubled me for a long time. I need to get this off of my chest. Not out of hate. Not even out of anger. But out of frustration and a deep desire for honesty when it comes to history, culture, and truth.

I grew up in a nearly all white town. But I wasn’t sheltered. I was constantly exposed to other races and cultures through the media I consumed. As a kid in the 90s and early 2000s, I watched shows like Kenan & Kel, All That, I loved Space Jam, and I thought Michael Jordan was one of the coolest people alive. I even wanted a Jordan action figure from the movie one Christmas. I wasn’t thinking in terms of race. I just thought black people looked interesting, cool, and stood out compared to what I was used to. I honestly found white people kind of boring in comparison.

My childhood doctor was southeast Asian. I recognized that he looked different than my family, but again, it wasn’t a big deal. I realized he was human. A person like me. He was just another adult in my world. Competent, kind, and normal.

Around the same time, I became fascinated with ancient history. And it's still deep passion of mine. I remember watching a documentary on ancient Egypt at my grandparents’ house. Even though the tomb art was stylized, I could still tell the figures weren’t meant to represent black people like the ones I saw on TV. Curious, I asked my grandpa what ancient Egyptians looked like. He said, “They looked like Arabs.” It stuck with me. He wasn’t quoting a book. It was just an honest, working class observation. And looking back now, with everything I’ve learned through ancient DNA studies and archaeology, I have to say he wasn’t far off. It was a plainspoken, Occam’s razor style take that, while not technically academic, turns out to be pretty close to what the evidence shows. That ancient Egyptians were a North African, west Eurasian people with deep roots in the Levant and Nile Valley.

By the time I was 12 or 13, I was playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for hundreds of hours. The main character, CJ, is black. I had zero issue playing as him. The setting, the character, the culture all made sense. I loved rolling around Los Santos, A fictionalized Los Angeles, In my low rider starting gang wars with the Ballas. I also played True Crime: New York City, another game with a black protagonist, Marcus Reed. Again, no problem. It all felt grounded and authentic.

I watched Hey Arnold! where Gerald, a black kid, was Arnold’s best friend. Totally normal to me. I didn't mind him because he was cool. Not because of or in spite of his race. There was another cartoon I watched as a kid on Nickelodeon called The Wild Thornberrys. The main character Eliza was gifted with the ability to talk to animals. Even though the show was centered more on animals and ecology, the places her family traveled to made them get in contact with unique cultures and people from around the world. In one episode I believe Eliza and her family are in Sub Saharan Africa. Eliza meets with a girl from the Maasai tribe. The episode delves into the culture of the Maasai like lion hunts. It seemed natural and not forced.

I was even into the LEGO Bionicle series, which was heavily inspired by Polynesian culture. Maybe even there were some west African tribal elements in there too. I loved the tribal masks and island aesthetic. One Christmas, I even received a carved wooden tribal mask from Cameroon which I still have to this day. I was genuinely drawn to other cultures. Not to show them off for virtue points. Not to politicize them. But because they were interesting and different from my everyday life.

I also played a lot of the PC game Age of Mythology in the early 2000s. A real-time strategy game based loosely on ancient civilizations and their mythologies. Even though the game is fantasy based and mixes gods, monsters, and time periods that didn’t historically overlap, I remember thinking it actually portrayed the Egyptians fairly well. They were shown with an olive or tanned appearance. Darker than the Greeks and Norse, but still visually distinct from Sub Saharan Africans.
One of the temporary military units you could recruit as Egyptians were “mercenaries.” Darker-skinned warriors with spears and zebra-hide shields, clearly meant to resemble Nubians or Sub Saharan Africans. And in the main campaign, the Egyptian leader is a black woman named Amanra. None of this bothered me. I already knew about Nubia, the 25th Dynasty, and the historical back-and-forth between Egypt and its southern neighbor. I understood that Egypt had ruled Nubia, and Nubia had once ruled Egypt. But that didn’t mean Egyptians were black.
Reflecting on it now, I sometimes wonder if Afrocentrists who played the same game misunderstood those elements. Maybe they saw a black female leader and a few dark-skinned soldiers and assumed, “See? Even this game shows the Egyptians were black!” without understanding the deeper context. That’s how subtle historical distortion starts. A small misinterpretation layered onto weak historical understanding, reinforced by modern cultural narratives.
I actually bought and replayed Age of Mythology again a few years ago. Looking at it with adult eyes, I think the Egyptian units could’ve had a bit more variation. Maybe slightly darker tones overall to reflect the range within North Africa. But even then, I’d still say it’s a more balanced and respectful portrayal than what we got in Netflix’s Cleopatra “documentary.” And that says something. That a stylized fantasy game from the early 2000s, made by people with no political agenda, treated ancient Egypt with more nuance than modern educational programming.

So no, I don’t have a problem with diversity. I never have.

What I have a problem with, and what deeply disturbs me now, is the intentional distortion of history and culture for political reasons.

It’s gotten much worse in the past 5–10 years, but if I’m being honest, the seeds of this were already planted earlier. I remember seeing a documentary sometime around 2012 about Hannibal and the Punic Wars. In the dramatized reenactments, they cast a black man to play Hannibal. Even back then, I knew that wasn’t historically accurate. The Carthaginians were Phoenician colonists mixed with native North Africans. Not Sub Saharan Africans. Hannibal was of Levantine Semitic origin. I didn’t raise a fuss about it at the time because I saw it as a one-off. Not part of a larger trend. And back then, Afrocentrists were still viewed like flat-earthers or ancient alien theorists. Radical outliers, not taken seriously by mainstream academics or the general public. But now? That fringe has bled into the mainstream, disguised as “diverse representation” or “rethinking history,” even though the evidence still doesn’t support the claims.

Today, this trend has only become more blatant (And yes, I had to google some of specifics because I have these shows in my memory but I can't remember the specifics like release dates actors etc.):

In Netflix’s Queen Cleopatra (2023), a black British actress, Adele James, was cast as Cleopatra VII. Even though Cleopatra was of Macedonian Greek descent, with no evidence of Sub-Saharan African ancestry.

In the BBC/Netflix series Troy: Fall of a City (2018), Achilles, the legendary Greek hero of the Trojan War, was portrayed by David Gyasi, a black actor. Despite the character being described in ancient texts as Greek and often associated with typical Mediterranean features.

In Netflix’s Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story (2023), the historical Queen Charlotte, wife of King George III, is depicted as a mixed-race woman. A portrayal based on speculative and highly contested theories about her ancestry.

In Netflix’s Vikings: Valhalla and similar medieval-era shows, black characters are portrayed as Viking Jarls or European nobles. Despite no historical basis for such demographics in that setting.

In Assassin’s Creed: Shadows (2025), one of the main protagonists is Yasuke. A black African samurai based loosely on a real historical figure who arrived in Japan in the 16th century. While Yasuke did exist, the game elevates him to a central heroic role. Far beyond what limited historical records actually support. Another modern reinterpretation shaped by identity politics rather than historical nuance.

And when people point out these historical inaccuracies, the response is often the same.
“It’s just entertainment.”
“We’re taking artistic license.”
“It’s a reimagining, not a documentary.”

That defense might hold water if these works were purely fantasy. But many of them are clearly framed as being inspired by real people and historical periods. The average viewer, especially younger audiences, often walks away thinking these portrayals are rooted in truth. And if anyone raises concerns about accuracy, they’re met with moral deflection. “Why does it matter? Are you threatened by diversity?”

It’s not about being threatened. It’s about telling the truth. Or at least making it clear when you’re not. When the only historical liberties being taken are ones that reinforce modern ideologies, that’s not creativity. That’s narrative control.
Artistic license shouldn’t be a shield against accountability. Especially when it’s used to reshape historical understanding in ways that are politically convenient.

But specifics matter. When someone says “multi-ethnic,” I want to know. What are the actual demographics? Are we talking 85% native population and 15% foreigners? 75/25? 60/40? Or an even 50/50? Because those numbers paint radically different pictures of a society. When you strip out that context, you create false impressions that eventually get absorbed as fact. If people hear the word “diverse,” they assume total equality of representation, even when the reality may have been a small minority presence in an overwhelmingly homogeneous civilization.

And this is where I think the general public gets misled. When scholars say “diverse” or “multi-ethnic,” many people especially in the West subconsciously picture something like modern-day America, where people from vastly different racial and ethnic backgrounds coexist in significant numbers. But that’s almost never what ancient civilizations looked like. It’s a false equivalency, and one that should be treated with caution.

And that’s why I say. It just needs to be correct. Handled properly.
Diversity isn’t inherently bad. I’ve never been against showing people of different backgrounds. I grew up respecting other cultures and still do.
But diversity has to be contextual, accurate, and honest. Not injected as a political afterthought. Not used to erase or overwrite historical realities.
Diversity isn’t automatically good just because it’s there. And homogeneity isn’t automatically bad just because it’s not diverse.
Different civilizations existed in different ways. And that’s okay. Not every society was a melting pot. If you're going to tell a story set in the past, respect the setting. Respect the culture. And respect the audience by being honest about what you're doing.

To make matters worse, even academic institutions have become politicized. Universities today are filled with scholars and historians who seem more interested in virtue signaling than telling the truth. You’ll hear phrases like “Africa is in the Mediterranean too.” Which is geographically true, but it’s often used dishonestly to blur the lines between North Africa and Sub Saharan Africa. This kind of wordplay gets tossed around to imply that ancient Egyptians, and by extension all North Africans, were black in the modern Sub Saharan sense.
But that erases the entire reality of North Africa as a distinct region. One that is genetically, culturally, and historically tied to the Near East and Mediterranean world. Not to the heart of Sub Saharan Africa. By at least the Epipaleolithic and Neolithic periods (~10,000–7,000 BCE), North Africa had become genetically and culturally aligned with the West Eurasian sphere, primarily through population movements from the Levant and Anatolia that shaped its long term demographic structure. With its own indigenous populations, Berber traditions, and a deep prehistoric connection to the Levant and Europe. Reducing that to “just Africa” in order to score political points is not serious scholarship. It’s an attempt to feel like a good person, rather than be a good historian.

What really frustrates me is that the scholars who do know better won’t speak up. They dodge these topics. Talk around them. Or bury their heads in academic jargon to avoid controversy. No one wants to be labeled racist, so they let the lies spread. Even if it means sacrificing the historical record. I understand that academics have careers to protect, and that speaking plainly about sensitive historical issues can risk reputations. But this also exposes a deeper issue in Western academia today. One where avoiding offense is often prioritized over preserving the historical record. The only figure I’ve seen speak up with real conviction is Zahi Hawass. And while I agree with much of what he says, he’s not a perfect messenger. He’s been accused of corruption and self-interest. And those accusations make it easy for critics to dismiss him, even when he’s right.

It seems to me that Afrocentrism and historical revisionism have gained momentum from a breakdown in trust. Some people start questioning everything. And instead of seeking better evidence, they replace institutions with ideology. Even if the ideology is built on bad history, cherry-picked facts, or racial romanticism. That vacuum of authority becomes a breeding ground for conspiracy thinking. Not just about Egypt, but about the past in general.

I didn’t need ancient Egyptians to be black in order to respect black people. I already did.
I didn’t need Cleopatra to be black to find African history fascinating.

What I can’t accept is the deliberate distortion of civilizations. The flattening of truth for emotional comfort. And the cowardice of people who know better but refuse to speak up.

That’s all. Thank you for taking time to read this.
 
Thank you for posting this. I completely agree with you. I'm always annoyed when a series or movie blatantly distort the historical reality, but that is particularly obvious Black African or East Asian actors to portray European, Middle Eastern or North African people. Some of my earliest memories of this are in the 1991 Robin Hood movie with Kevin Costner, in which his 'Arabic' friend was played by Morgan Freeman, and in the movie 300 (in 2006), in which Peter Mensah, a Black actor from Ghana, played the role of the Persian emissary. As you mentioned this phenomenon has become much more common over the last decade or so.

I noticed that very often it is North Africans that are being portrayed by Black actors. You mentioned Hannibal and Cleopatra, but have also seen this in the series Those About To Die on Prime Video (which I reviewed here, specifically criticising the choice of black actors to play North Africans) and The Spanish Princess on HBO (in which Catherine of Aragon's Moorish servants are Black).

It is particularly disturbing because I find that this is actually a kind of racist bias that is being normalised by Hollywood. It is a kind of racism specifically targeting North Africans whose identity is being replaced from Arabs or Berbers to Sub-Saharan Africans. I don't know why they are doing. It could be for the following reasons:

1) Bias or discrimination against North Africans and Arabs in general. Hollywood is mostly funded by Jewish people and tensions between Israel and Muslim world may be a reason they are unwilling to hire actress of Muslim origin. I find it at least likely a reason as they could easily find non-Muslim (e.g. Christian) Arabic actors as they often do in films and series portraying modern Muslim terrorists.

2) For purely financial reasons, as Black people represent a sizable part of the American and British population and they may feel more connected to the story if some of the actors are also Black. That was what first sprang to my mind when I saw Bridgerton (which I stopped watching after the first episode due to the nonsensical cast). But who in their right mind would sacrifice historical accuracy just to woo part of the potential audience? Who is to say that Black people agree with such historical distortion anyway? It sounds very shallow to assume they would. It reminds me of movies in the 1950s (or earlier) where white people played the roles of East Asian and Black African people with makeup, just to please the sense of superiority of some white people at the time.

3) It could be part of a political movement aiming at rewriting history by stamping out the racial identity of people in the Muslim world, as it is often Muslim people who are being replaced by other ethnicities.
 
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A lot of people feel the same way about these issues, qh777. One should also ask why this distortion of history is so rampant in US and British productions. I remember watching this BBC documentary about the first humans in Europe. It was about the arrival of the first homo sapiens (sapiens) and their encounter with the neanderthals. These first early modern humans were not shown to be just dark-skinned. They were played by SSA actors. While these early modern humans were almost certainly dark-skinned, they definitely did not look like the people we refer to as blacks today. Their phenotype is also the result of later adaptations and evolution. It was a very bizarre scene in a production coming from a once highly respected broadcaster like BBC, known for its long tradition of high-end science documentaries. I wonder if the abbreviation BBC stands for something else today.

Ancient Egypt has been a victim of distortions for a long time but its appropriation by afrocentrists is pretty much an African-American phenomenon. I'm not aware of this trend of ignorance being particularly popular among SSAs. They probably know that there's no connection between their history and that of Ancient Egypt. Another would be their overall lack of knowledge about these topics. And thirdly, one shouldn't disregard the contemporary experience of SSAs at the hands of North Africans who are extremely racist towards blacks. I remember an Egyptian guy from my school days who constantly used the N word in a very derogatory tone. And while we're at it, how much connection is there between contemporary and ancient Egyptians anyway? Egypt has been heavily colonised by Arabs and its native language and culture replaced. It was the Europeans that rediscovered Ancient Egypt, made it a focus of modern research, deciphered the hieroglyphs and amassed all the knowledge we have about Egypt's distant past, while the Arabs have been staring at the pyramids for centuries, completely uninterested in their origins and history.

But, as your grandfather said, qh777, ancient Egyptians certainly looked like Arabs and not SSAs. Their deep roots are tied to the Levant and the Natufian-derived populations that belonged to the West Eurasian cluster. However, I frequently encounter similar ignorant claims from the other camp, namely that the Egyptians were white. No, West Eurasian does not equal white and they certainly were not white just like today's Egyptians and Arabs are not white. I also don't know what common history there is between Europeans and Berbers but I don't want to digress. All I'm saying is that the people of Egypt and the Middle East have a unique and long history that should not be disrespected as is the case with the current trend of distortions and misrepresentations, a primarily WESTERN phenomenon and especially in Anglo-speaking countries. Perhaps we should take a look at who's running the media but that's another topic. Or is it? People have a right to defend their heritage from these attacks and lies, whatever purpose they may serve. Even lies with good intentions are still lies.

Ever since Trump has resumed office, there has been a huge change in social media. Years of aggressive "woke" propaganda have provoked the exact opposite of what may have been the original plan, or maybe not. I have noticed a surge in racism which is of the retaliatory kind. People have had enough of this woke and DEI stuff shoved down their throats. Their cultures and societies are eroding due to falling living standards, the squander of huge sums of money on unnecessary wars, illegal mass immigration from incompatible cultures and the constant cultural war waged against the natives who are forced to accept all these developments as the new normalcy. We are conditioned to hate our cultural heritage, to act like cucks to avoid being labeled racist and to accept the rewriting of our past. Now there's a massive pushback and it's going to get stronger. My fear is that it may go in the wrong direction but what I noticed is that the same people who were pushing for this woke DEI agenda, who were the most fervent enforcers of censorship in social media and media in general, are now rebranding themselves as champions of free speech. Both multiculturalism and its more extreme manifestations like DEI on the one hand, and identitarianism on the other, are used to create division and deflect from the class of people mainly responsible for the deteriorating living standards.

I'll conclude with a provocative question: when are we going to see a black actress playing Golda Meir?
 
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Thank you for posting this. I completely agree with you. I'm always annoyed when a series or movie blatantly distort the historical reality, but that is particularly obvious Black African or East Asian actors to portray European, Middle Eastern or North African people. Some of my earliest memories of this are in the 1991 Robin Hood movie with Kevin Costner, in which his 'Arabic' friend was played by Morgan Freeman, and in the movie 300 (in 2006), in which Peter Mensah, a Black actor from Ghana, played the role of the Persian emissary. As you mentioned this phenomenon has become much more common over the last decade or so.

I noticed that very often it is North Africans that are being portrayed by Black actors. You mentioned Hannibal and Cleopatra, but have also seen this in the series Those About To Die on Prime Video (which I reviewed here, specifically criticising the choice of black actors to play North Africans) and The Spanish Princess on HBO (in which Catherine of Aragon's Moorish servants are Black).

It is particularly disturbing because I find that this is actually a kind of racist bias that is being normalised by Hollywood. It is a kind of racism specifically targeting North Africans whose identity is being replaced from Arabs or Berbers to Sub-Saharan Africans. I don't know why they are doing. It could be for the following reasons:

1) Bias or discrimination against North Africans and Arabs in general. Hollywood is mostly funded by Jewish people and tensions between Israel and Muslim world may be a reason they are unwilling to hire actress of Muslim origin. I find it at least likely a reason as they could easily find non-Muslim (e.g. Christian) Arabic actors as they often do in films and series portraying modern Muslim terrorists.

2) For purely financial reasons, as Black people represent a sizable part of the American and British population and they may feel more connected to the story if some of the actors are also Black. That was what first sprang to my mind when I saw Bridgerton (which I stopped watching after the first episode due to the nonsensical cast). But who in their right mind would sacrifice historical accuracy just to woo part of the potential audience? Who is to say that Black people agree with such historical distortion anyway? It sounds very shallow to assume they would. It reminds me of movies in the 1950s (or earlier) where white people played the roles of East Asian and Black African people with makeup, just to please the sense of superiority of some white people at the time.

3) It could be part of a political movement aiming at rewriting history by stamping out the racial identity of people in the Muslim world, as it is often Muslim people who are being replaced by other ethnicities.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I haven't sat down and watched the Robin Hood film you mentioned, but I am aware of it. Sadly I think some of it comes from simple conflation with Africa=black, and that is simply not the case. The belief by some namely Afrocentrists is that the current population in North Africa are invaders from more recent times. As I mentioned in my original post the genetic and archaeological evidence does not support that claim. Not only that it's deeply offensive to the people living there today.
 
Cleopatra was light-skinned, Egypt tells Netflix in row over drama
Casting of black actor in upcoming docudrama has angered groups in Egypt who say it is ‘a falsification of Egyptian history’

Tunisia’s president calls for halt to sub-Saharan immigration amid crackdown on opposition
Kais Saied claims migrants are part of campaign to make country ‘purely African’ in move critics say is to distract from economic crisis

Migrants flee Tunisia after president's 'racist hate speech'
Hundreds of sub-Saharan Africans are heading back to their homelands amid a spike in vigilante violence — including the stabbing of African migrants. After their ordeal, they say they are relieved to be back home.
 
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Robin Hood is pretty much a fairy tale, so people didn't care back then. It was just a dumb Hollywood movie with no obvious agenda behind it. Whereas it might have appeared odd to most observers that an Arab "Moor" was portrayed by an African-American actor, bear in mind that there is a long tradition of portraying Moors as black. The "Mohrenkopf" in German-speaking countries is usually a black person. The Moor has been a frequent motive in European heraldry and it usually looked like a black person. I have no idea why that was the case.

No one really cared about racial roles in works of pure fiction. But this "rebranding" of actual historical characters and events is reaching criminal proportions. America's black populations would be up in arms if Hollywood decided to produce a film about Michael Jordan in which he's played by a white guy. Not only would it be offensive and disrespectful. It would be ridiculously stupid which is exactly what all these "woke" movies and series are.
 
A lot of people feel the same way about these issues, qh777. One should also ask why this distortion of history is so rampant in US and British productions. I remember watching this BBC documentary about the first humans in Europe. It was about the arrival of the first homo sapiens (sapiens) and their encounter with the neanderthals. These first early modern humans were not shown to be just dark-skinned. They were played by SSA actors. While these early modern humans were almost certainly dark-skinned, they definitely did not look like the people we refer to as blacks today. Their phenotype is also the result of later adaptations and evolution. It was a very bizarre scene in a production coming from a once highly respected broadcaster like BBC, known for its long tradition of high-end science documentaries. I wonder if the abbreviation BBC stands for something else today.

Ancient Egypt has been a victim of distortions for a long time but its appropriation by afrocentrists is pretty much an African-American phenomenon. I'm not aware of this trend of ignorance being particularly popular among SSAs. They probably know that there's no connection between their history and that of Ancient Egypt. Another would be their overall lack of knowledge about these topics. And thirdly, one shouldn't disregard the contemporary experience of SSAs at the hands of North Africans who are extremely racist towards blacks. I remember an Egyptian guy from my school days who constantly used the N word in a very derogatory tone. And while we're at it, how much connection is there between contemporary and ancient Egyptians anyway? Egypt has been heavily colonised by Arabs and its native language and culture replaced. It was the Europeans that rediscovered Ancient Egypt, made it a focus of modern research, deciphered the hieroglyphs and amassed all the knowledge we have about Egypt's distant past, while the Arabs have been staring at the pyramids for centuries, completely uninterested in their origins and history.

But, as your grandfather said, qh777, ancient Egyptians certainly looked like Arabs and not SSAs. Their deep roots are tied to the Levant and the Natufian-derived populations that belonged to the West Eurasian cluster. However, I frequently encounter similar ignorant claims from the other camp, namely that the Egyptians were white. No, West Eurasian does not equal white and they certainly were not white just like today's Egyptians and Arabs are not white. I also don't know what common history there is between Europeans and Berbers but I don't want to digress. All I'm saying is that the people of Egypt and the Middle East have a unique and long history that should not be disrespected as is the case with the current trend of distortions and misrepresentations, a primarily WESTERN phenomenon and especially in Anglo-speaking countries. Perhaps we should take a look at who's running the media but that's another topic. Or is it? People have a right to defend their heritage from these attacks and lies, whatever purpose they may serve. Even lies with good intentions are still lies.

Ever since Trump has resumed office, there has been a huge change in social media. Years of aggressive "woke" propaganda have provoked the exact opposite of what may have been the original plan, or maybe not. I have noticed a surge in racism which is of the retaliatory kind. People have had enough of this woke and DEI stuff shoved down their throats. Their cultures and societies are eroding due to falling living standards, the squander of huge sums of money on unnecessary wars, illegal mass immigration from incompatible cultures and the constant cultural war waged against the natives who are forced to accept all these developments as the new normalcy. We are conditioned to hate our cultural heritage, to act like cucks to avoid being labeled racist and to accept the rewriting of our past. Now there's a massive pushback and it's going to get stronger. My fear is that it may go in the wrong direction but what I noticed is that the same people who were pushing for this woke DEI agenda, who were the most fervent enforcers of censorship in social media and media in general, are now rebranding themselves as champions of free speech. Both multiculturalism and its more extreme manifestations like DEI on the one hand, and identitarianism on the other, are used to create division and deflect from the class of people mainly responsible for the deteriorating living standards.

I'll conclude with a provocative question: when are we going to see a black actress playing Golda Meir?
Thank you for your thoughtful reply as well, Norbert. I definitely agree with you that modern media has warped ancient Egypt’s identity, both through Afrocentric reinterpretations and overly simplistic Western categorizations. The strange Nordicist idea that Egypt was ruled and populated by blondehaired lightly complected people, something like the phenotype of PewDiePie, a Swede, is also on the same level of absurdity. Egypt had its own distinct civilization, but one that was also deeply rooted in the broader West Eurasian sphere, especially through Epipaleolithic and Neolithic migrations from the Near East.

Where we may differ slightly is in how we interpret the relationship between Europeans and ancient Near Eastern civilizations. While I fully recognize the cultural and historical distinctions, I think there is a case to be made that civilizations like Greece and Rome, which are often seen as ancestral to the modern West, were built atop layers of influence and contact with older Near Eastern societies like Egypt, Phoenicia, Mesopotamia, and the Hittites.

If people today feel a sense of connection or admiration for Greece and Rome, I think it is consistent, even natural, to acknowledge that many of the ideas, aesthetics, and even population movements that shaped them came in part from those earlier civilizations. That does not mean collapsing everyone into one cultural category, but I do think there is a broader biological continuity across West Eurasia that deserves more recognition than it typically gets.

To me, in certain aspects, biology overrides culture. It is why people sometimes question my ancestry in casual conversation. A coworker recently asked if I was Greek or Italian. When I asked what made her guess that, it was not my hairstyle or clothing. It was something more innate. That kind of recognition speaks to shared traits that go deeper than modern borders or identities.
 
As I mentioned in my original post the genetic and archaeological evidence does not support that claim.
Do not doubt the ability of Afrocentrists to try to change even the history of human migrations through the dissemination of false archaeogenetic theories. According to this American “scientist” here, the haplogroup “R1b” would have emerged in Sub-Saharan Africa and through the demic diffusion of Niger-Congo (Nilo-Saharan) carriers of R1*-M173 went from Africa to Eurasia between 4-5kya.

The Kushite Spread of Haplogroup R1*-M173 from Africa to Eurasia
In this paper we discuss the role of the Kushites in the spread of R1*-M173. Human y-chromosome haplogroup R1*-M173 is mainly found in Africa. Haplogroup R1*-M173 is the pristine form of haplogroup R. In Africa researchers have detected frequencies as high as 95% among Sub-Saharan Africans. The phylogenetic, craniometric, textual, historical and linguistic evidence support the dem ic diffusion of Niger- Congo (Nilo-Saharan) carriers of R1*-M173 from Africa to Eurasia between 4-5kya.
 
Do not doubt the ability of Afrocentrists to try to change even the history of human migrations through the dissemination of false archaeogenetic theories. According to this American “scientist” here, the haplogroup “R1b” would have emerged in Sub-Saharan Africa and through the demic diffusion of Niger-Congo (Nilo-Saharan) carriers of R1*-M173 went from Africa to Eurasia between 4-5kya.

The Kushite Spread of Haplogroup R1*-M173 from Africa to Eurasia
In this paper we discuss the role of the Kushites in the spread of R1*-M173. Human y-chromosome haplogroup R1*-M173 is mainly found in Africa. Haplogroup R1*-M173 is the pristine form of haplogroup R. In Africa researchers have detected frequencies as high as 95% among Sub-Saharan Africans. The phylogenetic, craniometric, textual, historical and linguistic evidence support the dem ic diffusion of Niger- Congo (Nilo-Saharan) carriers of R1*-M173 from Africa to Eurasia between 4-5kya.
Well, I made the mistake of attempting to correct some of these outrageous claims on Youtube. Honestly I had enough of the nonsense I was seeing in the comments sections of certain videos. Not in the Y-haplogroup part of genetics but the autosomal DNA studies. They would cite a STR study done by S.O.Y. Keita. The study by him found that the mummies tested read as being closer to SSAs than other groups. I would tell them STR is only useful now for studying things like the Y Chromosome and using it for paternity tests. Modern population genetics uses SNP based autosomal DNA with thousands to millions of markers across the genome, allowing for PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm, and other advanced methods that provide far more accurate and replicable ancestry estimates.

I would bring up the scheuneman et al. 2017 paper, and the Morez et al. 2023 doctoral thesis that successfully sequenced an old kingdom genome from Nuerat Egypt. The study complimented the 2017 findings that there was largely population continuity from the old kingdom to to the late period. This would be dismissed by Afrocentrists in the comments section as being foreigners, especially the TIP/late period. Or the arguement is that there are not enough samples. But I'm confident it is reflecting the trend that the Egyptians were not black/SSA.

They cite the Green Sahara period the people then must have been black because the environment was like the savannas of sub saharan Africa. At least thats how I thought they were presenting it. But I point out that environment was also present in Arabia and the Near East at that time as well.

They play games with semantics like using terms like "black Africans" so when you use proper terms like SSA they will then reply "Who said anything about SSAs?" to discredit your arguement.

The whole exchange ends when I say essentially I have made my position clear, and that they are arguing in bad faith and using the Youtube as a means of a weird form of activism.

I've brought this subject up to a friend of mine and he basically said "Everyone knows the Egyptians weren't black". And it only brought me partial comfort because I have all of this context I have observed over the years. I still like to think its a fringe minority thats loud on the internet akin to flat earthers. But I just think the audience has grown and that troubles me. And this applies not to just North African history but Europe and other parts of the near east as well.
 
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You add in the recent release of the video game Assassin's Creed: Shadows. Sure it's a video game, but it is marketed to be historically based. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I've had enough. And I had to say something.
 
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Well, I made the mistake of attempting to correct some of these outrageous claims on Youtube. Honestly I had enough of the nonsense I was seeing in the comments sections of certain videos. Not in the Y-haplogroup part of genetics but the autosomal DNA studies. They would cite a STR study done by S.O.Y. Keita. The study by him found that the mummies tested read as being closer to SSAs than other groups. I would tell them STR is only useful now for studying things like the Y Chromosome and using it for paternity tests. Modern population genetics uses SNP based autosomal DNA with thousands to millions of markers across the genome, allowing for PCA, ADMIXTURE, f-statistics, qpAdm, and other advanced methods that provide far more accurate and replicable ancestry estimates.

I would bring up the scheuneman et al. 2017 paper, and the Morez et al. 2023 doctoral thesis that successfully sequenced an old kingdom genome from Nuerat Egypt. The study complimented the 2017 findings that there was largely population continuity from the old kingdom to to the late period. This would be dismissed by Afrocentrists in the comments section as being foreigners, especially the TIP/late period. Or the arguement is that there are not enough samples. But I'm confident it is reflecting the trend that the Egyptians were not black/SSA.

They cite the Green Sahara period the people then must have been black because the environment was like the savannas of sub saharan Africa. At least thats how I thought they were presenting it. But I point out that environment was also present in Arabia and the Near East at that time as well.

They play games with semantics like using terms like "black Africans" so when you use proper terms like SSA they will then reply "Who said anything about SSAs?" to discredit your arguement.

The whole exchange ends when I say essentially I have made my position clear, and that they are arguing in bad faith and using the Youtube as a means of a weird form of activism.

I've brought this subject up to a friend of mine and he basically said "Everyone knows the Egyptians weren't black". And it only brought me partial comfort because I have all of this context I have observed over the years. I still like to think its a fringe minority thats loud on the internet akin to flat earthers. But I just think the audience has grown and that troubles me. And this applies not to just North African history but Europe and other parts of the near east as well.
Pan-Africanism is rampant on YouTube. There's no point in arguing because you'll be massacred. Africa is treated by Afrocentrists as the black continent and Mother Africa is basically Nagô, Yoruba and Bantu, in the sense that they are all ethnically Niger-Congolese. The cultural appropriation of ancient Egypt as a nation of blacks (or sub-Saharan) relies is based on the Eurocentric view, adopted by them, that Europeans = White, Africans = Black, Asians = Yellow and Native Americans = Copper or red. For example, people who have nothing to do with sub-Saharan Africans, such as Negritos, Andamanese, Papuans, Australian Aborigines and Melanesians, were and still are considered black, leading to the false impression that they have recent African ancestry when their relationship with Africa goes back more than 60,000 years, just like that of Europeans.
 
kangz
 
The Egyptian Dynasties had diverse origins.

E.g. the Hyksos for example, according to the more modern mainstream view are supposed to have been Semitic although imho they had a Semitic element and a Aegean / Greek-related element. They also had horses and chariots but they are clearly intrusive.

But e.g. the Nubians were actually significantly DARKER than many modern Nubians, so there were 'blacks' who were important in the Egyptian history. They had no Bantu ancestry though.
 
I'm well-aware of the cultural transfer between ancient Rome and Greece and the Near East. That is self-evident. The Mediterranean was an area that fostered competition and a struggle for dominance but also trade and the transfer of culture and knowledge. This has always been the case in all human history. I was only confused with your bit about the Berbers having deep ties to Europe. Maybe I misunderstood something but the Berbers have never been a civilisation of their own nor can I spot any particular ties. The Greeks have been in touch with ancient Mesopotamia, the Phoenicians (from whom they got their writing system which ultimately led to the one we're using right here) and Egypt, of course. They even claimed that they learned geometry from the Egyptians but they were just being humble in this particular case, as the Greeks were way ahead of the Egyptians in that field. But one cannot ignore the respect and admiration they had for the Egyptians.

Since it was mentioned, I have come across many social media posts claiming that Tutankhamun was of European origin because he may have belonged to haplogroup R1b. Such claims are accompanied with absurd descriptions of him as a white man. If I remember correctly, he is said to having belonged to the V88 clade, which did originate in the Eurasian steppe (it was also present in epipaleolithic Europe), but it is too ancient to insinuate recent European ancestry even during his lifetime. Considering his autosomal make-up, he must have been a typical Middle Eastern man. That same haplogroup wandered as far as central Africa during the Green Sahara period where it has been detected among SSA tribes with no apparent ties with the ancient Middle East or the point of origin of R1b-V88.

I agree with the poignant remark that afrocentrists are pretty much the result of eurocentrism. They are just less sophisticated and easier to debunk because their arguments are so absurd and caricatural.
 
Black people comprise 12-13% of the population of the US. I guarantee you that they are over represented in the movies and TV shows. On the other hand Latino people are 19% of the population but they are underrepresented in the movies and TV shows. It seems that Hollywood is trying to make up for years or neglect or underrepresentation. I have other complaints with remakes of classics where the character of Dr. Watson is being played by a black actor or the character of defense attorney Matlock is being played by a woman. Please why can't they write brand new roles for African Americans and women instead of remaking the classics.
 
I was only confused with your bit about the Berbers having deep ties to Europe. Maybe I misunderstood something but the Berbers have never been a civilisation of their own nor can I spot any particular ties.
I didn't mean to confuse but it was in reference to what I've read on this forum which is from the Van de Loosdrecht et al. 2018 paper covering the ancestry of Iberomaurusians that did seem to detect a signal of WHG. In hindsight perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Europe since it's a small component.
 
I didn't mean to confuse but it was in reference to what I've read on this forum which is from the Van de Loosdrecht et al. 2018 paper covering the ancestry of Iberomaurusians that did seem to detect a signal of WHG. In hindsight perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Europe since it's a small component.

The mtDNA haplogroup U5 exists among the Berber populations in small percentages. Said haplogroup is usually tied to the WHGs and is mostly found in northeastern Europe and Scandinavia today, but also in northern Spain. About half of Sami (a Uralic people) carry this haplogroup. It may be odd that this haplogroup is found in North Africa but not surprising. However, a haplogroup that is almost absent in Europe, except on the Iberian peninsula, but reaches high percentages in North Africa, is haplogroup U6. Now that haplogroup is not related to the WHGs but arrived in NA from the Middle East.
 
Black people comprise 12-13% of the population of the US. I guarantee you that they are over represented in the movies and TV shows. On the other hand Latino people are 19% of the population but they are underrepresented in the movies and TV shows. It seems that Hollywood is trying to make up for years or neglect or underrepresentation. I have other complaints with remakes of classics where the character of Dr. Watson is being played by a black actor or the character of defense attorney Matlock is being played by a woman. Please why can't they write brand new roles for African Americans and women instead of remaking the classics.
Love Michael Jackson. Love Eddie Murphy too, also I love the videoclip. But there is nothing more fake than portraying the ancient Egyptians and their royalty as sub-Saharan Africans. It is okay if I consider that artistic license allows (almost) anything and that the clip does not portray any historical figure or era in particular, despite the display in the introduction of the clip of one of the giant sculptures from the Temple of Ramses II (Abu Simbel) and also the bust of Nefertiti. About the bust of Nefertiti, by here I've already seen representatives of the black movement saying that “the beauty of the bust reflects the beauty of the black woman who was unduly appropriated by Europeans as being the standard of Caucasian beauty and that unfortunately the royal helmet worn by Nefertiti in the sculpture does not show us the very likely texture of her afro hair.”

 
In 1956 there was a film released starring John Wayne as Genghis Khan. Very bizarre choice. This was old Hollywood where the star was cast to attract ticket sales.
 
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