Question What did Paleo Balkan people look like?

I expected the identity-obsessed Albanian extremist to be triggered but let's clarify a couple of things: I'm not a Serb nor do I wish to be one. I also do not support any Slavic autochtonous ideas, whatever the heck that might be. And I certainly never claimed that the South Slavs look like Illyrians. What I said, however, is that you can find that typically Dinaric phenotype among South Slavs, most notably in areas like Dalmatia and Herzegovina. The Western Balkans wasn't only inhabitated by the Illyrians. They were assimilated by the incoming Slavs, so it is hard to reconstruct their exact phenotype from the looks of present-day South Slavs. But to claim that the Albanians are representative of the Illyrians or even a meta-phenotype of Paleo-Balkanians borders on arrogance and stupidity. It is equally ignorant to assign certain haplogroups to Albanians exclusively. The Albanians are nothing but left-overs that eluded full romanisation and later slavicisation south of the Danube in the Serbian-Bulgarian-Romanian border region. A people that did not live in the areas identified with Illyrians proper. We don't even know who the Illyrians were. Just because some graves were find on the territory of the Roman province of Illyria, doesn't mean the people buried in them were ethnic Illyrians. We don't know anything about the self-identification of the people buried in those graves or what language(s) they spoke.

To sum it all up, when you ask what Paleo-Balkanic people looked like, you have to first ask where in the Balkans. In the Western Balkans you would have found a more "Bell Beaker-shifted" people or peoples that certainly looked different from those in the South Balkans, the area where the Albanians belong. The Albanians are definitely more Paleo-Balkanic than South Slavs but to claim that they are the archetypical Paleo-Balkanians is simply insupportable.
 
Does Illyrian Y DNA haplogroup make you Illyrian?
I have supposedly Slavic haplogroup and my genetic distance is not even close to average Bulgarian, let alone Serb or Bosnian
Haplogroups track human male migrations thanks to DNA sequencing and IBD sharing I for instance know that I paternally descend from the Illyrians of the Paleo-Western Balkans. Those Slavs i.e. Bosnian Serbs, Croats, Muslim Serbs (Bosniaks) from Bosnia don't. So yes it is absolute pseudo-scientific BS to claim they look like a people they are not. This is called cultural and historic appropriation

You don't have a "supposedly Slavic" Y-DNA YOU HAVE a Slavic Y-DNA. You're a Slav living in North Macedonia near Albanians and you're really suprised you have Albanian admixture? Did you actually realize that haplogroup H12a is the most common Pan-Albanian maternal DNA?
 
I expected the identity-obsessed Albanian extremist to be triggered but let's clarify a couple of things: I'm not a Serb nor do I wish to be one. The Albanians are nothing but left-overs that eluded full romanisation and later slavicisation south of the Danube in the Serbian-Bulgarian-Romanian border region. A people that did not live in the areas identified with Illyrians proper. We don't even know who the Illyrians were. Just because some graves were find on the territory of the Roman province of Illyria, doesn't mean the people buried in them were ethnic Illyrians. We don't know anything about the self-identification of the people buried in those graves or what language(s) they spoke.
@Polska Apparently the near n=200 approaching J2b-L283 aDNA samples according to "norbert" are exclusively Roman era samples and we don't know anything about the archeology of the samples in question 😂🤦🏼 Sorry for the tag but I remembered your rebuttal of his usual pseudoscientific rambling in the J2b-L283 thread not so far ago. Totally owned him there.
 
Haplogroups track human male migrations thanks to DNA sequencing and IBD sharing I for instance know that I paternally descend from the Illyrians of the Paleo-Western Balkans. Those Slavs i.e. Bosnian Serbs, Croats, Muslim Serbs (Bosniaks) from Bosnia don't. So yes it is absolute pseudo-scientific BS to claim they look like a people they are not. This is called cultural and historic appropriation

You don't have a "supposedly Slavic" Y-DNA YOU HAVE a Slavic Y-DNA. You're a Slav living in North Macedonia near Albanians and you're really suprised you have Albanian admixture? Did you actually realize that haplogroup H12a is the most common Pan-Albanian maternal DNA?
Yes, I knew about H12a and Albanians. I said supposedly because as far as I know no early Slavic I-Z17855 was found. That would also mean that I have just like 20-25% Balto-Slavic ancestry, which is kind of surprisingly low. Or it means that the non-Slavs living there were just culturally assimilated.
 
Yes, I knew about H12a and Albanians. I said supposedly because as far as I know no early Slavic I-Z17855 was found. That would also mean that I have just like 20-25% Balto-Slavic ancestry, which is kind of surprisingly low. Or it means that the non-Slavs living there were just culturally assimilated.
Tbh your slavic is very low. I thought you may be one of those assimilated Orthodox Albanians from Macedonia. Some Albanians in Macedonia, who are Orthodox, are assimilating into the "North Macedonian" culture and identity.

Or a Sanxhaklija. Some Sanxhaklija are just like Ghegs.

But you should know better than me anyway. Your slavic is like half of what the Serbian average is. Which is interesting.
 
@Polska Apparently the near n=200 approaching J2b-L283 aDNA samples according to "norbert" are exclusively Roman era samples and we don't know anything about the archeology of the samples in question 😂🤦🏼 Sorry for the tag but I remembered your rebuttal of his usual pseudoscientific rambling in the J2b-L283 thread not so far ago. Totally owned him there.

I'm sorry but you are a very disturbed person. You need to learn how to communicate with people you disagree with. I have zero interest in your identity issues and paranoia.
 
Tbh your slavic is very low. I thought you may be one of those assimilated Orthodox Albanians from Macedonia. Some Albanians in Macedonia, who are Orthodox, are assimilating into the "North Macedonian" culture and identity.

Or a Sanxhaklija. Some Sanxhaklija are just like Ghegs.

But you should know better than me anyway. Your slavic is like half of what the Serbian average is. Which is interesting.

I don't know for every side of my family, but for my direct paternal lineage I have almost up to mid 1700's, and all were self declared as Slavs.
 
Romanians and Bulgarians are primarily Slavic in autosomal, but they do have Thracian, and i do believe Bulgarians have slightly more, even on uniparental where E-V13 is more prominent in Bulgaria.

You have tomb paintings of Thracians in Alexandrovo mound.

This one looks exotic i would say, probably quite a lot of Aegean-Anatolian autosomal.

main-qimg-b5ae47ac07367049bd1176f1825c8775-lq


These ones were most likely more common

main-qimg-48b9e35edb0e2c09404c1ddc348a80de-lq


main-qimg-c5e1e67027031476f6598b6de8965913-lq

main-qimg-28694c739f2c1031812d85718f3a0907-lq

main-qimg-62025b848d288fa7543838474438028d-lq


Also, looking at King Seuthes III sculpture, he had quite a Dinaric look.

800px-National_Archaeological_Museum_Sofia_-_Bronze_Head_from_the_Golyama_Kosmatka_Tumulus_near_Shipka.jpg


portrat-von-seuthes-iii-war-ein-konig-von-der-odrysische-konigreich-thrakien-ab-ca-331-v-chr-bis-ca-300-v-chr-bj2412.jpg
The statue looks like him
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240414_234435_TikTok.jpg
    Screenshot_20240414_234435_TikTok.jpg
    560.7 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
Just the nose! I look more like the statue then him 😁
View attachment 15999

Nah, you look like a Bulgar, the Turkic type, the statue clearly resembles the Albanian man.

His face is way longer than yours, his cheekbones are also way more prominent, his eyes are bigger, the nose is different.

You look like Mehmed the Conqeror lol.
 

Attachments

  • gettyimages-1354472147-612x612.jpg
    gettyimages-1354472147-612x612.jpg
    68.2 KB · Views: 0
Nah, you look like a Bulgar, the Turkic type, the statue clearly resembles the Albanian man.

His face is way longer than yours, his cheekbones are also way more prominent, his eyes are bigger, the nose is different.

You look like Mehmed the Conqeror lol.
If the Albanian guy would have a beard he would look more like mehmed and he looks more like Turk then me, and i didint say i look like the statue, i said i looke more then the pic you posted, am classified as dinaro-med so keep your wet dreams about Bulgar Turkic use a real pic instead of old painting, they lack details of facial features
 
Last edited:
If the Albanian guy would have a beard he would look more like mehmed and he looks more like Turk then me, and i didint say i look like the statue, i said i looke more then the pic you posted, am classified as dinaro-med so keep your wet dreams about Bulgar Turkic use a real pic instead of old painting, they lack details of facial features

No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror 😭.

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.
 
No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror 😭.

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.
Well then i can see that you are quite delusional, never said i looken like the Albanian, i said i looken MORE like Seuthes then the Albanian guy you posted, but we can end it here were we can agree to disagree
 
Last edited:
No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror 😭.

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.
I think he can pass in eastern Balkans.
 
Well then i can see that you are quite delusional, never said i looken like the Albanian, i said i looken MORE like Seuthes then the Albanian guy you posted, but we can end it here were we can agree to disagree

Nice projection. You don't look like him. The Albanian does. End of the story.
 
First of all when you
I imagined them being tall, white, dark haired and dark eyed.

Sorta like himView attachment 15951

Am I wrong in my assessment?
First of all you absolutely cannot compare modern phenotypes to Bronze Age, Iron Age or Classical era populations. But this photo is representative of a "soft' modern phenotype and there has been a "lightening" of pigmentation throughout Europe from antiquity on. I would look at individuals who are genetically the closest to the population you're trying to identify. For instance if you want to find the modern equivalent of a Panonian, Illyrian, Macedonian, Molossian, etc. then look at the individuals who cluster genetically with that particular Paleo-Balkan group. For instance a modern Mainland Greek from the Peloponnese, Thessaly, Macedonia, as well as most Albanians are probably the closest groups genetically to Southen Paleo-Balkan groups. More so than Macedonians, Serbs, etc. who have higher Slavic admixture. Remember many of these Paleo-Balkan samples have 35-40% Steppe that isn't necessarily Slav derived. The Paleo-Balkan groups also had pretty high 45-55% Anatolian Farmer which also impacts phenotype (just look at Sardinians).
 
Why do we have to get all insecure and political over this?

My guess is it would differ from tribe to tribe and not be homogeneous even within tribes.

But as far as L283 and by extension Western Balkan - Illyrians we do have some indication:

Both males in Tarquinia, Individual 10 and Individual 19, are assigned to the J2b (J2b* and J2b2a respectively).

Here are the eye, hair and skin pigmentation of the five new Etruscan samples + the Latin and Etruscans from Antonio et al. 2019. The new Tarquinia samples have a higher proportion of blue eyes and lighter brown hair.


Context
Site
Published
Sample
Eye
Hair
Skin
Etruscan​
Tarquinia​
This study​
Individal 10​
Blue​
Brown/Dark Brown​
Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Tarquinia​
This study​
Individal 11​
Brown**​
Lighter Brown​
Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Tarquinia​
This study​
Individal 14​
Brown​
Dark Brown​
Intermediate-Dark​
Etruscan​
Tarquinia​
This study​
Individal 19​
Blue​
Lighter Brown​
Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Tarquinia​
This study​
Individal 8​
Blue​
Lighter Brown​
Pale-Intermediate​
Adriatic coast Final Bronze Age​
Martinsicuro​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R1​
Blue​
Blond/Light Brown​
Pale-Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Veio Grotta Gramiccia​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R1015​
Blue​
Brown​
Intermediate​
Latin​
Castel di Decima​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R1016​
Brown​
Dark Brown​
Intermediate-Dark​
Latin​
Boville Ernica​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R1021​
Brown​
Lighter Brown​
Intermediate​
Latin​
Palestrina Colombella​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R435​
Brown​
Dark Brown​
Intermediate-Dark​
Latin​
Palestrina Selciata​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R437​
Brown​
Dark Brown​
Intermediate-Dark​
Etruscan​
Civitavecchia​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R473​
Brown​
Lighter Brown​
Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Civitavecchia​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R474​
Brown​
Blond/Light Brown​
Intermediate​
Etruscan​
Civitavecchia​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R475​
Brown​
Lighter Brown (with red tones)​
Pale-Intermediate​
Latin​
Ardea​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R850​
Brown​
Dark Brown/Black​
Intermediate​
Latin​
Ardea​
Antonio et al. 2019​
R851​
Brown​
Dark Brown​
Dark​

We have hundreds of L283s so should this phenotype analysis be done to the rest we will have a better idea.
Chances are given the close proximity of modern Albanians to those ancient samples both in autosomal makeup and YDNA there would be resemblance, outside of epigenetic / environmental factors that is.
 
The Thracians especially their northern brethren Daco-Moesians were probably Dinarid looking quite a lot.

Looking at Constantius Chlorus (a Thracian/Moesian descended man) you can see quite Dinaricized appearance. That wide sides of the head is interesting, you can see in some Albs, i have it too and my bro, but not as extreme as his.

Dinarid as a race is an outdated term i guess, it's more like evolutionary adaptation to high altitude/mountainous living.

220px-Const.chlorus01_pushkin.jpg


220px-Const.chlorus02_pushkin.jpg
 

This thread has been viewed 2987 times.

Back
Top