HereToLearn
Regular Member
So much space in fact a whole empire to put the slaves and yet according to these people the Romans only put slaves to work in a space corresponding to the modern borders of Italy…
It is also incredibly disingenuous to say the Greeks had a negligible impact, despite the fact they've been coming there since the Bronze age, and there's clear genetic affinity, according to studies like Raveane et al. 2022. Yet in total contravention of the findings of Antonio et al. 2019, that demonstrated exotic immigrants from the Near East no longer existed in Rome since Late Antiquity; it is those people that left the biggest genetic impact. The whole thing is absurd on it's face, when people actually read the raw information of what the studies demonstrate. It is merely a perceived-flex, and a trolling campaign by bizarre malcontents.So much space in fact a whole empire to put the slaves and yet according to these people the Romans only put slaves to work in a space corresponding to the modern borders of Italy…
his (g25 values) similarity map according to user ph2ter from genArchivist
Most similar to Anatolian Greek:
View attachment 18133
at theytree:
BSP71 - 176–101 calBCE - R-PH2731 / T1a1 - 祖源树TheYtree
祖源树TheYtree样本:BSP71 - 176–101 calBCEwww.theytree.com
What a garbage article.
The Romans were Iranians? LOL
Don't you mean all Italian U152 men are so descended.It’s possible that all Italians descend from just 2,000 elite U152 men of the Roman Empire.
The Romans were an Indo-European people and according to almost all recent genetic studies, the original Indo-Europeans had CHG/Iranian ancestry.
Don't you mean all Italian U152 men are so descended.
There are other haplogroups in Italy. J2, G2 and E1b subclades are common, especially in the south of Italy.
Using Neolithic admixtures to analyze the Roman Empire period is anachronistic—it’s a tactic they use to avoid getting into trouble, but in the end, they end up getting completely tangled up.
We know very well by now that the haplogroups with ancestry from Neolithic Iran are: J2-PF5116, T-M70, some J1, and some G.
But the most likely migration route for all of these is:
Kura-Araxes > Anatolia (4000–2000 BC) > Aegean (1800–1200 BC) > Italy (1200 BC – 500 AD)
They are simply misclassified due to Neolithic bias, which creates the false impression that the Roman Empire was overrun by Iranians—but that has nothing to do with reality.
What we can infer from current studies is that the northern and central regions had higher frequencies of U152, and it was that part of the population that expanded, while educating and dominating the rest. If someone behaved like a Roman, they were Roman (rights always come with obligations), and those who didn’t… became slaves.
The continuity of U152 since 2500 BC is the only thing we can say for sure about the history of the Italian Peninsula. The rest of the lineages are still under question—and that’s what these kinds of studies are supposed to clarify. But it all just keeps getting more confusing. We do know there’s some continuity for other lineages too, but since they represent a smaller percentage, it will take a much larger number of samples to get a clear picture.
Everything they classify as “eastern” or “Iranian” is in fact more often related to the peoples of the Aegean Sea and Phoenicians (mixed) than to populations of 100% eastern origin.
Anatolia (4000–2000 BC) = Proto-Anatolian, Aegean (1800–1200 BC) = Proto-Hellenic, Italy (1200 BC – 500 AD) = Proto-Italic
It is important to know where the culture originated, for example read it: WOLF MYTHS IN ANCIENT ROME & ITALY - Ralph Häussler It has mentioned Near East (Iran) where this myth originated.
View attachment 18258
Description: Stone stamp-seal in the form of a stone ring; large perforation; engraved on flat surface with wolf to left (right when impressed) suckling two children (Romulus and Remus?); to the left is a crescent and to the right is a star, with above an inscription; complete.
The 'Romulus and Remus' theme of this seal implies familiarity with classical mythology. It may be a product of a glyptic workshop in a more western region of the Sasanian empire such as Mesopotamia.
Myths are often very old and travel through more than a way - and they can be adopted later by other ethnies after contacts (the mythic Scythian origin of the Scots!); so they aren't out of worth but they aren't too solid markers either.Anatolia (4000–2000 BC) = Proto-Anatolian, Aegean (1800–1200 BC) = Proto-Hellenic, Italy (1200 BC – 500 AD) = Proto-Italic
It is important to know where the culture originated, for example read it: WOLF MYTHS IN ANCIENT ROME & ITALY - Ralph Häussler It has mentioned Near East (Iran) where this myth originated.
View attachment 18258
Description: Stone stamp-seal in the form of a stone ring; large perforation; engraved on flat surface with wolf to left (right when impressed) suckling two children (Romulus and Remus?); to the left is a crescent and to the right is a star, with above an inscription; complete.
The 'Romulus and Remus' theme of this seal implies familiarity with classical mythology. It may be a product of a glyptic workshop in a more western region of the Sasanian empire such as Mesopotamia.
There is no consensus that Proto-Italic could follow that path and that those equivalences and dates are valid. Certainly, Proto-Italic does not derive directly from either Greek or the Anatolian Indo-European languages.
Goat’s head… neck and body of a horse… limbs and tail of a lion…Anatolia (4000–2000 BC) = Proto-Anatolian, Aegean (1800–1200 BC) = Proto-Hellenic, Italy (1200 BC – 500 AD) = Proto-Italic
It is important to know where the culture originated, for example read it: WOLF MYTHS IN ANCIENT ROME & ITALY - Ralph Häussler It has mentioned Near East (Iran) where this myth originated.
View attachment 18258
Description: Stone stamp-seal in the form of a stone ring; large perforation; engraved on flat surface with wolf to left (right when impressed) suckling two children (Romulus and Remus?); to the left is a crescent and to the right is a star, with above an inscription; complete.
The 'Romulus and Remus' theme of this seal implies familiarity with classical mythology. It may be a product of a glyptic workshop in a more western region of the Sasanian empire such as Mesopotamia.
Myths are often very old and travel through more than a way - and they can be adopted later by other ethnies after contacts (the mythic Scythian origin of the Scots!); so they aren't out of worth but they aren't too solid markers either.Anatolia (4000–2000 BC) = Proto-Anatolian, Aegean (1800–1200 BC) = Proto-Hellenic, Italy (1200 BC – 500 AD) = Proto-Italic
It is important to know where the culture originated, for example read it: WOLF MYTHS IN ANCIENT ROME & ITALY - Ralph Häussler It has mentioned Near East (Iran) where this myth originated.
View attachment 18258
Description: Stone stamp-seal in the form of a stone ring; large perforation; engraved on flat surface with wolf to left (right when impressed) suckling two children (Romulus and Remus?); to the left is a crescent and to the right is a star, with above an inscription; complete.
The 'Romulus and Remus' theme of this seal implies familiarity with classical mythology. It may be a product of a glyptic workshop in a more western region of the Sasanian empire such as Mesopotamia.
For the Centum aspect of Anatolian languages I am not sure but I am not very knowledged about them! ATW the IE question is very fuzzy in mediterranea. It seems Greece knew diverse families of IE languages and that at least some Anatolian dialect has been spoken before what began to be Greek dialects, then different. Italy knew - with high probability - more than an IE language in its south, so on what we know we cannot affirm that DIVERSE IE families didn't coexisted there since BA, come from south as well as from north plus later others come from east Adriatic. A simple trait as centum aspect isn't a sufficient criteria here.Proto-Italic was a Centum language, like Greek and Anatolian languages,
according to The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean: "In Sicily, Iranian-related ancestry also arrived by the Middle Bronze Age, thus revealing that this ancestry type, which was ubiquitous in the Aegean by this time, also spread further west prior to the classical period of Greek expansion.", in fact in the Middle Bronze Age they were Proto-Indo-Europeans who migrated to the South of Italy, not Greeks or Anatolians.
Proto-Italic was a Centum language, like Greek and Anatolian languages,
according to The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean: "In Sicily, Iranian-related ancestry also arrived by the Middle Bronze Age, thus revealing that this ancestry type, which was ubiquitous in the Aegean by this time, also spread further west prior to the classical period of Greek expansion.", in fact in the Middle Bronze Age they were Proto-Indo-Europeans who migrated to the South of Italy, not Greeks or Anatolians.
Goat’s head… neck and body of a horse… limbs and tail of a lion…
You have some very strange wolves in Iran.
The seal is from the 4th century BC—most likely, Trajan told you the story of the she-wolf when he visited three centuries earlier.