Immigration Sweden or how to destroy a country through poor immigration policy

Your arguments are the right side supporters ones, as ever. But in fact things are more complicated. And immigrations is not only a help to leftists politicians to have more voices. A part of th 'leftist' basic people is as worried by the massive immigration as the rightist' ones. And the big capital is very satisifed by this immigration, even more the so called "neo-liberal" part of it. The "gesticulations" of some spectruom of the rightist side are also a mean to gain voices in elections, spite they don't think what they say. The populists parties (in fact playing the same game as the neo-liberalists when economy and social is in cause) aren't able to apply the policy they suggest, but they promise it. The problem todate crosses the traditionnal politic parties breaking lines. Sorry for this partly simplistic argumentation (lack of time).
No offense to anybody.

Moesan,

I am right-wing, I make no secret of it, and I confirm that these arguments are the tired repertoire of right-wing politicians to appeal to the belly of their electorate (parties currently of little capacity and intellect, which at least in Italy come to power only at the moment in which which they are authorized by higher spheres, and as long as they sweeten or flatten their program and their governmental action).

But exposing or reporting them doesn’t change the reality of the facts.

An Islam problem exists, it is one of history's harsh replies, even if we want to imagine a rosier reality.
The banlieues, with their extraterritorial rules more or less based on sharia, exist.
The gang rapes of young second and third generation non-natives, against native peers or their own group, are daily news, they are a fact, even if they are now classified as local news of less or no interest.
The violence perpetrated in the family by clans, these truly patriarchal ones, towards daughters or sons who intend to emancipate themselves at least constitute another abundant and boring case study that arouses indifference. The European frog is now boiled to perfection.

Then, we can discuss whether reality is tremendously more complex or what the left is today (I agree with what you and Norbert explained). But we have to deal with the current left, or that thing that calls itself generically "left", not with what it was 70-80 years ago. In that political area, they haven't given a damn about proletarian/worker demands for a long time or only remember them when it suits them (incidentally, have they ever really been interested in them in the past or did they act there too?).

Today's left-wing world - but I wouldn't even exclude the older one - identifies and often "creates" the oppressed of the moment who are most electorally convenient to protect, and conversely the oppressive element to be faced and overthrown is also identified (one of the mechanisms in this sense the culture of whining about which Robert Hughes has written intelligent pages is more functional). But the left itself is ready to unload what it once protected, and which now no longer pays off. It did so with the local proletariat decades ago, which still remains poorly represented. It has been doing so in recent months in relation to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. After having accused even the house cat of anti-Semitism for decades to attack the local right-wingers, now - coincidentally - she has become the most fervent spokesperson for the anti-Israeli Palestinian cause. Is it because they have ever really cared about the Palestinians? I doubt it, except in the past for some anti-American/Israeli views. Today the recently re-erupted conflict has mobilized the Islamic communities settled in Europe, and the numerical disproportion between them and the Jewish ones has hastened the left's calculations regarding future vote projections and the electoral basins to be favored. .
It is on the left that non-profit organizations and other organizations that manage the movement of immigrants and refugees are financially subsidized and legally protected. It is on the left (and here in Italy this is pervasive up to high judicial levels) that constant defenses are found to justify or tolerate crimes committed by immigrants or to justify crimes committed in the name of ideologies approved by the intelligentsia. A few months ago in Brescia an acquittal was requested for an immigrant who beat and enslaved his wife, justifying it as a "cultural fact". With all due respect to the rule of law and the laws that should be in force there.

No one doubts that there has been an evolution that has modified (or distorted) the left in the past decades, a process that has monstrously and paradoxically made it organic with the most radical and ferocious capitalism (we will never know whether for convenience or for stupidity, or both).
But at least two elements remained in common with its predecessor model: 1) the control of culture and information, which constantly filters, manipulates, distorts and mystifies reality (they also do it on the right, but they remain crude beginners in comparison of others); 2) internationalism which effectively opposes any initiative or measure of "national"/"local" value. By left today I mean a sort of wealthy progressive oligarchy of a liberal nature (to simplify our lives let's call it "radical-chic"), constantly opposed to the national interests of its own country, perpetually at the service - and sometimes even in the pay - of groups or Foreign countries. From a sociological and psychological point of view, it almost always gathers a group of egotists, self-referential pseudo-cultured narcissists, who pose as an enlightened elite to mask addictions and strange mental complexes/mechanisms of inferiority and hypersocialization. An explosive mix that generates a trend and a vision of the world or totalitarian, religious-like, almost fideistic. All seasoned with a certain dose of immaturity and a lack of sense of reality, because our armchair revolutionaries want to be champions of the most noble and tolerant international humanitarian demands, as long as others take responsibility for them. In Italy we say that these people play gay with other people's asses. It is vulgar but still remains the best and most relevant definition.


And precisely with regard to the last point, it is undeniable that the left likes Islam, and a lot (especially the more reactionary one). There is a common anthropological basis: the constant need to level, homologate, to repress dissent and critical voices, to inculcate everything without debate. What cannot be achieved through so-called secular ways, can be achieved through religious ways.
A perfect wedding, in short, which will be our funeral.
 
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In my opinion, European nations should be ethnically representative of the nationality they claim to represent. If I visit Germany I would like to see a country of ethnic Germans. If I visit Portugal I'd like to see a country of ethnic Portuguese. That's not to say there can't be any foreign visitors or travelers, but these should be temporary arrangements as opposed to settling permanent and high fertility foreign populations which replace those of the natives. If a nation state no longer shows impetus or volition to maintain such a bare minimum standard of life for its body of citizenry, then it ceases to be a nation state and instead becomes a threat to its own people.
 
Sweden is not destroyed in any way, get out of your house and stop watching news online
 
Moesan,

I am right-wing, I make no secret of it, and I confirm that these arguments are the tired repertoire of right-wing politicians to appeal to the belly of their electorate (parties currently of little capacity and intellect, which at least in Italy come to power only at the moment in which which they are authorized by higher spheres, and as long as they sweeten or flatten their program and their governmental action).

But exposing or reporting them doesn’t change the reality of the facts.

An Islam problem exists, it is one of history's harsh replies, even if we want to imagine a rosier reality.
The banlieues, with their extraterritorial rules more or less based on sharia, exist.
The gang rapes of young second and third generation non-natives, against native peers or their own group, are daily news, they are a fact, even if they are now classified as local news of less or no interest.
The violence perpetrated in the family by clans, these truly patriarchal ones, towards daughters or sons who intend to emancipate themselves at least constitute another abundant and boring case study that arouses indifference. The European frog is now boiled to perfection.

Then, we can discuss whether reality is tremendously more complex or what the left is today (I agree with what you and Norbert explained). But we have to deal with the current left, or that thing that calls itself generically "left", not with what it was 70-80 years ago. In that political area, they haven't given a damn about proletarian/worker demands for a long time or only remember them when it suits them (incidentally, have they ever really been interested in them in the past or did they act there too?).

Today's left-wing world - but I wouldn't even exclude the older one - identifies and often "creates" the oppressed of the moment who are most electorally convenient to protect, and conversely the oppressive element to be faced and overthrown is also identified (one of the mechanisms in this sense the culture of whining about which Robert Hughes has written intelligent pages is more functional). But the left itself is ready to unload what it once protected, and which now no longer pays off. It did so with the local proletariat decades ago, which still remains poorly represented. It has been doing so in recent months in relation to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. After having accused even the house cat of anti-Semitism for decades to attack the local right-wingers, now - coincidentally - she has become the most fervent spokesperson for the anti-Israeli Palestinian cause. Why have they ever really cared about the Palestinians? I doubt it, except in the past for some anti-American/Israeli views. Today the recently re-erupted conflict has mobilized the Islamic communities settled in Europe, and the numerical disproportion between them and the Jewish ones has hastened the left's calculations regarding future vote projections and the electoral basins to be favored. .
It is on the left that non-profit organizations and other organizations that manage the movement of immigrants and refugees are financially subsidized and legally protected. It is on the left (and here in Italy this is pervasive up to high judicial levels) that constant defenses are found to justify or tolerate crimes committed by immigrants or to justify crimes committed in the name of ideologies approved by the intelligentsia. A few months ago in Brescia an acquittal was requested for an immigrant who beat and enslaved his wife, justifying it as a "cultural fact". With all due respect to the rule of law and the laws that should be in force there.

No one doubts that there has been an evolution that has modified (or distorted) the left in the past decades, a process that has monstrously and paradoxically made it organic with the most radical and ferocious capitalism (we will never know whether for convenience or for stupidity, or both).
But at least two elements remained in common with its predecessor model: 1) the control of culture and information, which constantly filters, manipulates, distorts and mystifies reality (they also do it on the right, but they remain crude beginners in comparison of others); 2) internationalism which effectively opposes any initiative or measure of "national"/"local" value. By left today I mean a sort of wealthy progressive oligarchy of a liberal nature (to simplify our lives let's call it "radical-chic"), constantly opposed to the national interests of its own country, perpetually at the service - and sometimes even in the pay - of groups or Foreign countries. From a sociological and psychological point of view, it almost always gathers a group of egotists, self-referential pseudo-cultured narcissists, who pose as an enlightened elite to mask addictions and strange mental complexes/mechanisms of inferiority and hypersocialization. An explosive mix that generates a trend and a vision of the world or totalitarian, religious-like, almost fideistic. All seasoned with a certain dose of immaturity and a lack of sense of reality, because our armchair revolutionaries want to be champions of the most noble and tolerant international humanitarian demands, as long as others take responsibility for them. In Italy we say that these people play gay with other people's asses. It is vulgar but still remains the best and most relevant definition.


And precisely with regard to the last point, it is undeniable that the left likes Islam, and a lot (especially the more reactionary one). There is a common anthropological basis: the constant need to level, homologate, to repress dissent and critical voices, to inculcate everything without debate. What cannot be achieved through so-called secular ways, can be achieved through religious ways.
A perfect wedding, in short, which will be our funeral.
This is one of the most succinct, perceptive and accurate analyses on the matter I have ever read.
Bravo.
 
In my opinion, European nations should be ethnically representative of the nationality they claim to represent. If I visit Germany I would like to see a country of ethnic Germans. If I visit Portugal I'd like to see a country of ethnic Portuguese. That's not to say there can't be any foreign visitors or travelers, but these should be temporary arrangements as opposed to settling permanent and high fertility foreign populations which replace those of the natives. If a nation state no longer shows impetus or volition to maintain such a bare minimum standard of life for its body of citizenry, then it ceases to be a nation state and instead becomes a threat to its own people.
If only we could turn that particular clock back!
 
Moesan,

I am right-wing, I make no secret of it, and I confirm that these arguments are the tired repertoire of right-wing politicians to appeal to the belly of their electorate (parties currently of little capacity and intellect, which at least in Italy come to power only at the moment in which which they are authorized by higher spheres, and as long as they sweeten or flatten their program and their governmental action).

But exposing or reporting them doesn’t change the reality of the facts.

An Islam problem exists, it is one of history's harsh replies, even if we want to imagine a rosier reality.
The banlieues, with their extraterritorial rules more or less based on sharia, exist.
The gang rapes of young second and third generation non-natives, against native peers or their own group, are daily news, they are a fact, even if they are now classified as local news of less or no interest.
The violence perpetrated in the family by clans, these truly patriarchal ones, towards daughters or sons who intend to emancipate themselves at least constitute another abundant and boring case study that arouses indifference. The European frog is now boiled to perfection.

Then, we can discuss whether reality is tremendously more complex or what the left is today (I agree with what you and Norbert explained). But we have to deal with the current left, or that thing that calls itself generically "left", not with what it was 70-80 years ago. In that political area, they haven't given a damn about proletarian/worker demands for a long time or only remember them when it suits them (incidentally, have they ever really been interested in them in the past or did they act there too?).

Today's left-wing world - but I wouldn't even exclude the older one - identifies and often "creates" the oppressed of the moment who are most electorally convenient to protect, and conversely the oppressive element to be faced and overthrown is also identified (one of the mechanisms in this sense the culture of whining about which Robert Hughes has written intelligent pages is more functional). But the left itself is ready to unload what it once protected, and which now no longer pays off. It did so with the local proletariat decades ago, which still remains poorly represented. It has been doing so in recent months in relation to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. After having accused even the house cat of anti-Semitism for decades to attack the local right-wingers, now - coincidentally - she has become the most fervent spokesperson for the anti-Israeli Palestinian cause. Why have they ever really cared about the Palestinians? I doubt it, except in the past for some anti-American/Israeli views. Today the recently re-erupted conflict has mobilized the Islamic communities settled in Europe, and the numerical disproportion between them and the Jewish ones has hastened the left's calculations regarding future vote projections and the electoral basins to be favored. .
It is on the left that non-profit organizations and other organizations that manage the movement of immigrants and refugees are financially subsidized and legally protected. It is on the left (and here in Italy this is pervasive up to high judicial levels) that constant defenses are found to justify or tolerate crimes committed by immigrants or to justify crimes committed in the name of ideologies approved by the intelligentsia. A few months ago in Brescia an acquittal was requested for an immigrant who beat and enslaved his wife, justifying it as a "cultural fact". With all due respect to the rule of law and the laws that should be in force there.

No one doubts that there has been an evolution that has modified (or distorted) the left in the past decades, a process that has monstrously and paradoxically made it organic with the most radical and ferocious capitalism (we will never know whether for convenience or for stupidity, or both).
But at least two elements remained in common with its predecessor model: 1) the control of culture and information, which constantly filters, manipulates, distorts and mystifies reality (they also do it on the right, but they remain crude beginners in comparison of others); 2) internationalism which effectively opposes any initiative or measure of "national"/"local" value. By left today I mean a sort of wealthy progressive oligarchy of a liberal nature (to simplify our lives let's call it "radical-chic"), constantly opposed to the national interests of its own country, perpetually at the service - and sometimes even in the pay - of groups or Foreign countries. From a sociological and psychological point of view, it almost always gathers a group of egotists, self-referential pseudo-cultured narcissists, who pose as an enlightened elite to mask addictions and strange mental complexes/mechanisms of inferiority and hypersocialization. An explosive mix that generates a trend and a vision of the world or totalitarian, religious-like, almost fideistic. All seasoned with a certain dose of immaturity and a lack of sense of reality, because our armchair revolutionaries want to be champions of the most noble and tolerant international humanitarian demands, as long as others take responsibility for them. In Italy we say that these people play gay with other people's asses. It is vulgar but still remains the best and most relevant definition.


And precisely with regard to the last point, it is undeniable that the left likes Islam, and a lot (especially the more reactionary one). There is a common anthropological basis: the constant need to level, homologate, to repress dissent and critical voices, to inculcate everything without debate. What cannot be achieved through so-called secular ways, can be achieved through religious ways.
A perfect wedding, in short, which will be our funeral.
Its because we in the west have it easy for generations. Imho that basically sums up modern liberalism. In my country housing is huge issue and many of the left are getting punished aswell, I can't believe our government is so incompetent to allow so much immigration when we never had the housing and jobs for this turbo migration.
 
From what my Greek/Swedish immigrant friends tell me, not all is what it seems in Sweden. Now I don't have the statistics to back their empirical observations but there is increased crimes committed by autochthonous Swedes and immigrants from Eastern Europeans associated with the drug trade. They also tell me that every crime committed by a Muslim immigrant is highlighted on TV and online where as the crimes committed by Europeans are put on page 5.
 
According to 2021 demographics of Spain, Moroccans are 1.7% of the population. Thus looking at the crime stats above they are clearly overrepresented committing 8.5% of all crime
1,7% of the population, but how many among young people (20-40)?

It's believed that they are like 10% of births and they have a fertility rate around 3, so that would mean they're like 6,5% of people among that age
 
Its because we in the west have it easy for generations. Imho that basically sums up modern liberalism. In my country housing is huge issue and many of the left are getting punished aswell, I can't believe our government is so incompetent to allow so much immigration when we never had the housing and jobs for this turbo migration.
Social housing is also a hot potato in the UK with many homeless indigenous people while certain groups from abroad get accommodation.
 
Sweden is not destroyed in any way, get out of your house and stop watching news online

Of course Sweden is not physically destroyed. What I meant is that Swedish society and the attitude of the people has changed (or is changing) completely due to the crimes perpetrated by these refugees. 20 years ago it was normal to leave doors unlocked in Sweden as you would not expect burglars. Sweden was practically as safe as Japan, where you can leave your wallet on a bench, come back a few hours later and still find it there (or at the nearest police station ready to be picked up). Now innocent bystanders, including children, are being killed by violent gang warfare with automatic weapons and grenades. That's not at all the same society any more.

But most of all it is the number of rapes that have skyrocketed since the arrival of Syrian, Iraqi and Afghan refugees. This article about Sweden’s migrant rape crisis quoting an academic paper on Swedish rape offenders says:

According to the researchers, Swedish-born offenders with Swedish-born parents accounted for 40.8% of the offenders. But, strikingly, almost half of the offenders were born outside of Sweden (47.7%). Of those foreign-born offenders, 34.5% were from the Middle East/North Africa, with 19.1% hailing from the rest of Africa. As a percentage of all convicted perpetrators, therefore, 16.4% were foreign-born individuals from the Middle East/North Africa, and 9.1% were foreign-born individuals from Africa (excluding North Africa).

Moreover, if we piece various statistics together, we find there are 565,902 foreign-born people living in Sweden who were born in North Africa and the Middle East, representing 4.9% of Sweden’s population. Yet 16.4% of those convicted of rape and attempted rape are foreign-born individuals from North Africa and the Middle East: over-representation by a factor of 3.3. And that figure rises to 4.7 when you consider all foreign-born citizens from Africa (excluding North Africa.)

It's worth noting here that ou of about 200,000 Sub-Saharan African refugees/immigrants living Sweden, 66.5% hail from the Horn o Africa, mostly from Somalia (55,000 people) and Eritrea (40,000).
 
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The 'Muslim crime scare' is a MYTH

This is the real data of my country Spain, where Moroccans (africans) are blamed constantly for crime.

Because nationalization of Moroccans is more difficult and lengthy that for Hispanoamericans and Eastern Europeans, this is an accurate depiction, so don't try to bring the "what about all the nationalized" because it won't work.

We have all crimes ('delitos')
View attachment 16047
Here's aggravated murder, only 5 in 2022
View attachment 16048

And finally, the horrendously libelous and racist PANIC about rapes by Arab/Islamic migrants.
View attachment 16049




These ideas about a "Muslim crime wave" are totally false and the product of a constant misinformation campaign from the European far-right that is believed acritically by many.

And gets particularly inhumane when we're blaming the Syrian and Iraqi refugee caravans and calling them "invaders".




It is the product of specifically reporting crime only when and where is Muslim.

I invite you to do the same research for your country and post it here.
If you think having large numbers of single Muslim Men ages 18 to 30 from Syria and Lebanon brought into Europe under the ruse of Asylum is good for Europe, then I feel sorry for you. At least in Ukraine it is women, children and the elderly. Salmon Rushdie, the Iranian Writer is someone who qualified for Asylum years ago. All Europe has done is import what is going on in the Middle East to your front door.

Europe has lost its soul long time ago and seems to be losing its mind.
 
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1,7% of the population, but how many among young people (20-40)?

It's believed that they are like 10% of births and they have a fertility rate around 3, so that would mean they're like 6,5% of people among that age
Yes, that's a fair observation about the age demographic and the fertility rate. I would also add the socioeconomic factor. But these things themselves are also to some extent a product of Islamic values and society (particularly their emphasis on having large numbers of children). That will invariably affect the perception of the culture.
 
I moved the offtopic discussion about the housing crisis to a new thread, so that the two discussions don't get mixed.
 
What a grand disaster they created,We are about to behold the death of civilizations of a continent,not something you would see in thousand of years
If Trump wins the US election then it's farewell to Ukrainian independence and Palestinian survival next to Israel.
 
Too late. We should have thought of this at least 40-50 years ago.

And it is not just a question of the massive numbers of these uncivilised immigrants (or whose integration has been fake or superficial). There are in fact certain forces in the Western world that act as fifth columns, which will oppose any such measures. And they will probably make a reversal substantially impossible.

In the meantime, one would have to reckon with all the (mostly left-wing) political forces that have forcibly favoured or wanted this state of affairs. Is it realistic to think that they will give up their largest reservoir of votes? More likely they will abolish taxes.

Secondly, but connected to the previous point, it would be necessary to counter that horrid 'cultural' (!) humus that in fact castrates and puts the West in check. All those poisonous ideologies that feed its sense of guilt for its colonial and/or supposedly racist past, for the political and social privileges that now have to be atoned for with indiscriminate reception, not to mention that imbecilic radical neo-feminism - a real Trojan horse - that always points the finger at the white European male and his supposed patriarchy, but which closes both eyes and becomes silent, totally conformist and submissive in the face of real violence perpetrated by immigrants.

The European future is more likely to be an inextricable cloud of more or less localised civil wars, between natives and Islamic immigrants or descendants of the latter, an immense Balkanisation of the continent that will make it disappear from history and relegate it to an insignificant offshoot of the Afro-Middle Eastern world.
I don't really see Islam as sucha big problem yet. If there are going to be civil wars then i highly doubt there is going to be a significant islamic faction. More likely it would be different political positions.

I think in many western countries societies have changed in a bad way and it's not just the massive immigration some countries are facing. We are way too liberal. That together with democracy won't go well.
 
Europe is not lost
There is always eastern europe
And they would not tolarate
What western europeans can
They would fight for land and culture
Like lions and the islam would lose there
The Balkans have been Muslim, Orban is too radical and Putin doesn't seem to be Islamophobic at all.

Poland, Czechia, the Baltics and Ukraine on the other hand... Those would fight.
 
If you think having large numbers of single Muslim Men ages 18 to 30 from Syria and Lebanon brought into Europe under the ruse of Asylum is good for Europe, then I feel sorry for you.
It's fine, they aren't causing a war.
The far-right on the contrary, has been trying to with the excuse of migration.
 
It's fine, they aren't causing a war.
The far-right on the contrary, has been trying to with the excuse of migration.
Ok that is your way of dealing with it. Its fine, no they are not causing war "YET" but if you think there are areas in European cities that the indigenous/natives of each respective country can freely go into, then your "statement" (to be clear your statement) reminds me of that scene from the 1968 version of the Planet of the Apes where the Orangutans would not listen to Vera and Cornelius (the Chimps) telling them about Taylor (Charlton Heston) and that Humans were the older and more advanced civilization.

Keep burying your head in the sand.
 
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