R1a1 and Viking dispersal in Great Britain

Angela

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See:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00747-z

"[h=2]Abstract[/h]The influence of Viking-Age migrants to the British Isles is obvious in archaeological and place-names evidence, but their demographic impact has been unclear. Autosomal genetic analyses support Norse Viking contributions to parts of Britain, but show no signal corresponding to the Danelaw, the region under Scandinavian administrative control from the ninth to eleventh centuries. Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a1 has been considered as a possible marker for Viking migrations because of its high frequency in peninsular Scandinavia (Norway and Sweden). Here we select ten Y-SNPs to discriminate informatively among hg R1a1 sub-haplogroups in Europe, analyse these in 619 hg R1a1 Y chromosomes including 163 from the British Isles, and also type 23 short-tandem repeats (Y-STRs) to assess internal diversity. We find three specifically Western-European sub-haplogroups, two of which predominate in Norway and Sweden, and are also found in Britain; star-like features in the STR networks of these lineages indicate histories of expansion. We ask whether geographical distributions of hg R1a1 overall, and of the two sub-lineages in particular, correlate with regions of Scandinavian influence within Britain. Neither shows any frequency difference between regions that have higher (≥10%) or lower autosomal contributions from Norway and Sweden, but both are significantly overrepresented in the region corresponding to the Danelaw. These differences between autosomal and Y-chromosomal histories suggest either male-specific contribution, or the influence of patrilocality. Comparison of modern DNA with recently available ancient DNA data supports the interpretation that two sub-lineages of hg R1a1 spread with the Vikings from peninsular Scandinavia."
 
Thanks for the link and information. I know from before that we had a pretty large presence of Wends in Sweden. Could that be one of the explanations of the spread of R1a, from us into the islands? Also I read that Canute the Great picked up more than 14000 warriors from Pommern, then a west Slavic tribe. Just a guess.

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From an Italian point of view, it looks as if the majority of the R1a1(although not by much) in TSI is Germanic in origin. Certainly not Slavic, which our friends in the Balkans seem to have found surprising. The reason, of course, is that the Germans were already here and kept them out.

A small group, but should be added to the I1 and R1b-U106 in computing the impact of Germanic males in Italy.

Surprised by how little R1a1 there is in South Asia for all the fuss made about it. Also rather surprised it's not the majority in Poland.
 
Also rather surprised it's not the majority in Poland.

Isn't it? This study with a large sample size (n=2705) found 57% frequency of R1a in Poland:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2020.567309/full

fgene-11-567309-t001.jpg
 
Yeah, I knew already that R1a is very high in Poland, that's why I guessed the Wends. One of our historians, Jan Guillou, makes references about it.

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Isn't it? This study with a large sample size (n=2705) found 57% frequency of R1a in Poland:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2020.567309/full

fgene-11-567309-t001.jpg

You may be right; if this is a bigger sample, perhaps it's more accurate. It's not what this paper found, if you take a look at the diagram in the link.

Even that isn't as high as I thought it would be given anthrofora chatter. Very little, comparatively, in the Balkans. The Slavs who went there must have carried predominantly what used to be called I2a-Din?

Maybe you can take a look at the Norwegian R1a1 distribution and tell Mordred if those sub-groups are likely to be Slavic in origin originally.
 
Yeah, I knew already that R1a is very high in Poland, that's why I guessed the Wends. One of our historians, Jan Guillou, makes references about it.

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the Wends went deep into Germany ........from east of the Elbe river to the west of the Vistula river

my guess is that they where there at least 500 years

they ( wends ) where basically destroyed by the saxon and thuringian tribes invasion of their lands in what was called the Wendish Crusade
The Wendish Crusade (German: Wendenkreuzzug) was a military campaign in 1147, one of the Northern Crusades and a part of the Second Crusade, led primarily by the Kingdom of Germany within the Holy Roman Empire and directed against the Polabian Slavs (or "Wends").
 
the Wends went deep into Germany ........from east of the Elbe river to the west of the Vistula river

my guess is that they where there at least 500 years

they ( wends ) where basically destroyed by the saxon and thuringian tribes invasion of their lands in what was called the Wendish Crusade
The Wendish Crusade (German: Wendenkreuzzug) was a military campaign in 1147, one of the Northern Crusades and a part of the Second Crusade, led primarily by the Kingdom of Germany within the Holy Roman Empire and directed against the Polabian Slavs (or "Wends").
Heads up for the information. Jan Guillou and Herman Lindqvist (known historians here) mentioned the Wends long before the crusades. I'm referring to the Vendel time, which was just before the Viking age.

During the same period as the sailing vessels were established, trading posts such as Birka in Sweden, Ribe in Denmark, Hedeby in northern Germany, Truso in Poland, Staraja Ladoga in Russia and Dorestad in the Netherlands were also established. A network around the Baltic Sea emerged that is reminiscent of the later medieval Hanseatic League.
- These places have had close contact with each other. Trade and crafts have been organized in the same way. During this time, an organizational awakening takes place, which becomes even clearer in the Viking Age, says Charlotte Hedenstierna-Jonson at Uppsala University, who participates in the ten-year project Vikingafenomenet, which explores the roots of the Viking Age.

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The R1a in Britain is definitely predominantly of the Scandinavian type. Not sure which mutations the paper is referring to but if it was R-L448, or upstream Z284, and maybe L664. None of these are Slavic groups. Since none of them, including I1 have been found in Britain before migration period, it can be assumed the arrived with Germanic groups like Angles, Saxons or Danes.
 
I'm not sure if I'm following you. Which mutations are specific for which tribes? What were the mutations for the Wends or any other West slavic tribes and which mutations are specific for the Germanic tribes?

My interest in Wends is because Scandinavian Kings have called themselves King of Wends.

King of the Wends (Latin: Rex Vandalorum or Rex Sclavorum; Danish: Vendernes Konge; Swedish: Vendes Konung) was a pan-Scandinavian title denoting sovereignty, lordship or claims over the Wends, a people who historically populated Western Slavic lands of southern coasts of the Baltic Sea, those otherwise called Mecklenburg, Holstein and Pomerania, and was used from the 12th century to 1972 by Kings of Denmark and from c. 1540 to 1973 by the Kings of Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Wends?wprov=sfla1


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