R1a-Z280-YP270 - Algerian Jew - ???

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nesspt247

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Hello everyone! I'm new to this site, and I am not an expert in this stuff (that's an understatement!). But I've been presented with somewhat of a mystery concerning my own Y-DNA results. From 23andme I was placed in R1a-Z280-YP270. I was also given the following ethnic distribution from my father's side:

20% - North African/West Asian
15% - Italian
10% - "Broadly European"
5% - Iberian​

The strange thing about this is that my father's family is Algerian Jewish. His father was a rabbi from a line of rabbis going back at least to the 17th century. So both the Slavo-Baltic haplogroup and Italian DNA seem unusual.

Does anyone have any insight based on population genetics/historical facts that could shed light on this mystery?

Hugely appreciated!

-Eli
 
YP270 is part of the easternmost Balto-Slavic subclade of Z280, Z92. YP270 is, like most subclades of Z92, found mostly in Eastern Europe, but one of its clades, Y13891, has a representative from Sardinia. YP270 originated in 2500 BC and had its most recent common ancestor (MRCA) in 1200 BC. In comparison, my assigned subclade after the update, R1a-YP445, originated in the year 150 and had a MRCA from the year 600, who was most likely born in East Germany. YP270 is too old and far-flung to determine a place of origin, although the area of Belarus or Lithuania would make sense.
 
Thanks, Joey!

As I mentioned, I am a complete novice. Is there a way to find out the particular downstream clade that I belong to? Or if 23andme stops at YP270 does that mean it ends there? (Again, apologies for the ignorance).
 
Joey37 said:
YP270 originated in 2500 BC and had its most recent common ancestor (MRCA) in 1200 BC.
Click to expand...

What exactly does the MRCA mean in this context? Does that mean that the YP270 individual living in 1200 BC was an ancestor of all YP270 people living today? Thanks!
 
MRCA means Most Recent Common Ancestor, and everyone who is a member of that clade is descended from that man in the male line. If you wish to test further down the line, YSEQ or Family Tree DNA could be your best bet there; YSEQ offers a R1a-Z280 panel that will determine your furthest downstream clade for $88.
 
nesspt247 said:
What exactly does the MRCA mean in this context? Does that mean that the YP270 individual living in 1200 BC was an ancestor of all YP270 people living today? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think the Vandals had a kingdom in North Africa. There is definitely a possibility that this was its means of arrival in your case. I would take a further test. This way you can find how much further down the branch you are, and who your matches are and how close. Here is the information on the Vandalic Kindom of North Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandal_Kingdom

"In 429, the Vandals, estimated to number 80,000 people, had crossed by boat from Spain to North Africa. They advanced eastward conquering the coastal regions of 21st century Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia."
 
Dibran said:
"In 429, the Vandals, estimated to number 80,000 people, had crossed by boat from Spain to North Africa. They advanced eastward conquering the coastal regions of 21st century Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia."
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dibran!

I think you may be on to something. Here's a quote from an article online, analyzing whether Vandals were Germanic or Slavic:

"Sardinia is the best place to look for traces of [Vandal] DNA because not only is it the best studied region of Italy, but also no other Germanic people settled there (apart from a very brief Gothic reign), which means that the presence of lineages on the island would incontestably be of Vandalic origin."

As Joey mentioned above, there is another R1a-YP270 hit in Sardinia. So maybe this is support for your suggestion of Vandal origin. (It's also support for the theory that Vandals were Slavic/Baltic, I guess?)

I will update here and seek opinions again when I get results from the YSEQ test, currently on its way to me.



 
Could you please elaborate on what doesn't make sense? It would be help me understand the issues
 
nesspt247 said:
I got my final result from YSEQ: R1a-Y13891

Any insights?
Click to expand...

According to Y-Full theres a sample in Sardinia, Russia, Finland, Lithuania and Poland. So maybe it is Vandals?
 
nesspt247 said:
Hello everyone! I'm new to this site, and I am not an expert in this stuff (that's an understatement!). But I've been presented with somewhat of a mystery concerning my own Y-DNA results. From 23andme I was placed in R1a-Z280-YP270. I was also given the following ethnic distribution from my father's side:
20% - North African/West Asian
15% - Italian
10% - "Broadly European"
5% - Iberian​

The strange thing about this is that my father's family is Algerian Jewish. His father was a rabbi from a line of rabbis going back at least to the 17th century. So both the Slavo-Baltic haplogroup and Italian DNA seem unusual.

Does anyone have any insight based on population genetics/historical facts that could shed light on this mystery?

Hugely appreciated!

-Eli
Click to expand...
23andMe are reliable for recent ethnic background (few hundreds years back),its looks like you have some recent South European ancestry (maybe Sephardic roots from Spain or Portugal?), we can assume that Algerian Jews have a close genetic admixture to others North African people.
Your R-YP270 is very common among Baltic and Slavic people, R-YP270 have a TMRCA = 3100 years.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP270/
Your R-YP270 is maybe a far Vandal heritage from Iberia or North Africa?, it's should be great if you or your Dad do a BigY700 or a WGS (Nebula Genomics,Dante Labs them a transfer to Yfull)
https://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.uk/Divinity6web/movements.html#vas1


View attachment 12946
 
nesspt247 said:
I got my final result from YSEQ: R1a-Y13891

Any insights?
Click to expand...
R-Y13891 have a TMRCA = 2300 years, maybe a far Vandal heritage from Iberia or North Africa?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y13891/

The Great Migrations into the Western Roman Empire...Barbarian Invasions from 395AD

https://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.uk/Divinity6web/movements.html#vas1

vandals.jpg
 
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