Phenotypes of the Spaniards

[Jovialis]

Ana de Armas


She was born in Cuba, of Spanish decent. Too me she looks like more of a Celto-Germanic-type.


She's also extremely attractive imo.

 

[Sir Philip]

Ana de Armas


She was born in Cuba, of Spanish decent. Too me she looks like more of a Celto-Germanic-type.


She's also extremely attractive imo.

She's just of alpine phenotype, doesn't strike me as particularly typical in germanic and celtic countries

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[Angela]

Well, there aren't many Alpines in Spain.

We all have atypical people in our populations.

 

[Sir Philip]

Well, there aren't many Alpines in Spain.

We all have atypical people in our populations.

Alpine among spaniards in not uncommon, but it is very often mixed with gracile med

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[Davidtab]

Maciamo, I read the link you gave me, but some things are not clear for me. The berber genetic intromission in West Iberia is dated between 860 and 1120, and the pattern to the south of the different clades is clearly related with languages and different northern kingdoms of Middle Age Iberia. The present genetic map of Iberian Peninsula is related to the people movements of the last 1000 years. For being sure of what was the genetic map of Iberia before reconquest, it is neccesary to study ancient DNA, actual distribution is not accurate to see that. The study is publicated in 2018 Nature review, signed by Carracedo (USC), Simon Myers, Peter Donnelly and Clare Bycroft (Oxford). About extremely genetic diversity in Galicia and Basque Country between shires, there are recent studies as well.

For me is quite clear, West Iberia (northwest Iberia, Extremadura and central Portugal) completed reconquest against moors very quickly, by then berbers were muslims since little time and religious differences were not as insane as they were lately, so berbers were assimilated, today this component reachs its peak at 10% in some western iberian shires. Central and East Iberia completed reconquest much more lately, by then religious differences were very rough and muslims were sistematically expelled of reconquered territories, even pure iberians who were muslims.

I very hardly believe Basques have high percentages of light color eyes and hair. I can not find the study but I remind a recent and massive study of that, the highest percentage of light color eyes and hair is northern Galicia and west Asturias, and this is reasonably because of combination of climate conditions and higher percentages of germanic genetics.

A person like Laura Prats could be quintessential of west mediterranean appearance, but Iberia is much more than Mediterranean Coast. The appearance of a person like Laura Prats is not common in Atlantic Iberia from Lisbon to San Sebastian, for example, the appareance of Ana de Armas is by far for me more familiar than the one represented by Laura Prats (who in the picture is tanned by summer sun).

Iberia, and Spain, is wide, with very different climate areas, and the diversity of appereances are, by far, more numerous than central and northern european countries. When I lived in Ireland, I saw Irish people is very similar between them, there are scarce diversity in appereances. Galicia is half extension in territory, similar in population and the diversity of appereances in people is very much higher.

 

[Sir Philip]

Maciamo, I read the link you gave me, but some things are not clear for me. The berber genetic intromission in West Iberia is dated between 860 and 1120, and the pattern to the south of the different clades is clearly related with languages and different northern kingdoms of Middle Age Iberia. The present genetic map of Iberian Peninsula is related to the people movements of the last 1000 years. For being sure of what was the genetic map of Iberia before reconquest, it is neccesary to study ancient DNA, actual distribution is not accurate to see that. The study is publicated in 2018 Nature review, signed by Carracedo (USC), Simon Myers, Peter Donnelly and Clare Bycroft (Oxford). About extremely genetic diversity in Galicia and Basque Country between shires, there are recent studies as well.

For me is quite clear, West Iberia (northwest Iberia, Extremadura and central Portugal) completed reconquest against moors very quickly, by then berbers were muslims since little time and religious differences were not as insane as they were lately, so berbers were assimilated, today this component reachs its peak at 10% in some western iberian shires. Central and East Iberia completed reconquest much more lately, by then religious differences were very rough and muslims were sistematically expelled of reconquered territories, even pure iberians who were muslims.

I very hardly believe Basques have high percentages of light color eyes and hair. I can not find the study but I remind a recent and massive study of that, the highest percentage of light color eyes and hair is northern Galicia and west Asturias, and this is reasonably because of combination of climate conditions and higher percentages of germanic genetics.

A person like Laura Prats could be quintessential of west mediterranean appearance, but Iberia is much more than Mediterranean Coast. The appearance of a person like Laura Prats is not common in Atlantic Iberia from Lisbon to San Sebastian, for example, the appareance of Ana de Armas is by far for me more familiar than the one represented by Laura Prats (who in the picture is tanned by summer sun).

Iberia, and Spain, is wide, with very different climate areas, and the diversity of appereances are, by far, more numerous than central and northern european countries. When I lived in Ireland, I saw Irish people is very similar between them, there are scarce diversity in appereances. Galicia is half extension in territory, similar in population and the diversity of appereances in people is very much higher.

On the apricity, some people deny that dna comes from berbers saying that "galicia and asturias were never conquered"

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[Davidtab]

Sir Philip, there was a muslim tax achiever in Gijon (Asturias coast), and surely muslims arrived at Atlantic coast at the very beginning, as they arrived as far as north in France like Poitiers in 732. Did they conquered North Atlantic and Cantabrian coast? surely they only ask for taxes during 10-20-30 years, but nothing like an occupation. The only bishofrics in Iberia with absolut continuity between roman times until today are Iria Flavia (present Santiago de Compostela) and Lugo both in Northern Galicia, and those days at least a big part of Asturias was part of Lugo bishofric. In the place where I was born, in the northwestern atlantic coast of Galicia, there are legends about muslims who went there once per year to take a tribute composed by 100 girls, the noble house of the place has as symbol fig branches because they used fig branches to make the muslims go away when they went to get the girls.

There are still questions without answers about berber genetics in Western Iberia. Lugo was repopulated in 739 with Christian refugees came from North Africa. Perhaps there were more christian refugees from North Africa in northwestern Iberia, and if you add these refugees to berber remains in 739 (date of the berber revolt against sirians in Iberia), you will obtain this 5-10% of berber genetics in West Iberia. It is known as well muslims made raids in northern Iberian to obtain slaves, but christians made raids in muslim territory to obtain slaves as well, so we had to add these item to the prior two. I have read sometime berber genetics are mainly located in some areas or shires inside Western Iberia, I don?t know if this is very accurate or not.

Year 739 is very important, it was the real beginning of christian counterattack.

 

[bigsnake49]

Galicia and Asturia were settled by Celts, were they not? I mean even the name Galicia betrays that. Same as Galatia in Anatolia. One would expect lighter/red hair and blue/green/hazel eyes.

 

[Sir Philip]

Sir Philip, there was a muslim tax achiever in Gijon (Asturias coast), and surely muslims arrived at Atlantic coast at the very beginning, as they arrived as far as north in France like Poitiers in 732. Did they conquered North Atlantic and Cantabrian coast? surely they only ask for taxes during 10-20-30 years, but nothing like an occupation. The only bishofrics in Iberia with absolut continuity between roman times until today are Iria Flavia (present Santiago de Compostela) and Lugo both in Northern Galicia, and those days at least a big part of Asturias was part of Lugo bishofric. In the place where I was born, in the northwestern atlantic coast of Galicia, there are legends about muslims who went there once per year to take a tribute composed by 100 girls, the noble house of the place has as symbol fig branches because they used fig branches to make the muslims go away when they went to get the girls.

There are still questions without answers about berber genetics in Western Iberia. Lugo was repopulated in 739 with Christian refugees came from North Africa. Perhaps there were more christian refugees from North Africa in northwestern Iberia, and if you add these refugees to berber remains in 739 (date of the berber revolt against sirians in Iberia), you will obtain this 5-10% of berber genetics in West Iberia. It is known as well muslims made raids in northern Iberian to obtain slaves, but christians made raids in muslim territory to obtain slaves as well, so we had to add these item to the prior two. I have read sometime berber genetics are mainly located in some areas or shires inside Western Iberia, I don�t know if this is very accurate or not.

Year 739 is very important, it was the real beginning of christian counterattack.

Interesting

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[Davidtab]

Surely some people who speak Q-Celtic arrived at northwestern Iberia and settled here. Ancient roman or greek authors said some Celtic tribes settled originally in southwestern Iberia migrated to northwestern in times of punic/roman wars, these were called Celtici by romans composed by Supertamarici, Praestamarchi, Nerii and Artabroi, from actual Ulla River to near Asturias.


Later in 409 Suebii from middle Danube arrived (Suebii, Cuadi and Marcomanni) here as well and raised the first kingdom of West Europe aside Roman Empire. This Kingdom was catholic by 455, and lasted 175 years, when its name was not yet Suebii Kingdom, but Gallicense Kingdom (giving the feel of joined populations galaico-romans and Suebii) conquered by visigoths in 585. This Kingdom is the origin of today Portugal. In english: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Suebi

We had as well an ethnic bishofric in Vth and Vth centuries in very northern Galicia and Western Asturias created for britonics migrated from actual British islands. It was called Britonia Bishofric, origin of today Mondoñedo Bishofric. The village called Bretoña exists still today, the ancient church is very beautiful. In italian (no english article for that in wikipedia): https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocesi_di_Britonia

Perhaps these migrations and climate conditions have influenced existing a higher percentage of light features.

 

[Maciamo]

The following actors are from the Amazon series El Cid.

Celto-Germanic type

Jaime Olías. He could easily pass for British, Belgian, North French or West German.


Celtic type

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Lucía Guerrero. This is how I imagined the Classical Alpine Celtic phenotype (Hallstatt and La Tène). She could very easily pass for Walloon or North French.

Roman type

Francisco Ortiz. I think he could easily pass for a Central or North Italian.


British type (?)

Juan Echanove. He is from Madrid but has a Basque surname. He really reminds me of Boris Johnson.


Iberian type (?)

Jaime Lorente, from Murcia. His phenotype is not Celtic, Germanic, Italic/Roman, Basque, Phoenician, nor Arabic, so I suppose that only leaves Iberian.

 

[firetown]

Basque models:

Garbiñe Abasolo García (born May 17, 1964) was the first Miss Spain from the Basque region. She was crowned in 1983. She later went on to represent Spain in both Miss Universe 1984 and Miss Europe 1984 where she didn’t win but was chosen as Miss Photogenic in both pageants. She has been the only contestant from Spain to be chosen for both pageants.

Lorena Bernal Pascual (born 12 May 1981) is an Argentine-Spanish actress, television host, and model.
Bernal was born in San Miguel de Tucumán, Argentina. She moved to San Sebastián, Spain, when she was a year old, and studied at the French Lycée Français de Saint Sebastién in the city, then at Maurice Ravel school in Saint Jean de Luz across the border in France. She is fluent in Spanish, English and French.

Yolande Margaret Betbeze Fox (November 28, 1928 – February 22, 2016) was an American singer and beauty pageant titleholder who was crowned Miss America 1951.


Betbeze was born on November 28, 1928 in Mobile, Alabama, to William, a butcher, and Ethel Betbeze. Betbeze was raised in a Catholic family of French Basque descent, and she attended convent schools.

Jon Kortajarena Redruello (born 19 May 1985) is a Spanish fashion model and actor. He has landed advertising campaigns for Just Cavalli, Versace, Giorgio Armani, Bally, Etro, Trussardi, Diesel, Mangano, Lagerfeld, Pepe Jeans but notably H&M, Zara, Guess and Tom Ford for his consecutive seasons with the brands. On 26 June 2009, Forbes ranked Kortajarena eighth in The World’s 10 Most Successful Male Models.

Sheila Márquez (born in Vitoria-Gasteiz, Spain, 19 September 1985) is a Spanish model.

Jeanne Germaine Berthe Agnès Souret (21 January 1902 – 30 September 1928) was a French actress and dancer who was the winner of the inaugural Miss France competition in 1920.
Jeanne Germaine Berthe Agnès Souret was a French-Basque born in Biarritz on 21 January 1902, the daughter of former ballet dancer Mauguerite Souret. Her grandfather was Henri Souret, a customs official in the town of Bidarray. Her formative years were spent at Espelette in Labourd, Northern Basque Country.
Agnès Souret died of peritonitis on 30 September 1928, aged 26, whilst touring Argentina. To ensure that her body could be repatriated to France, Souret’s mother Marguerite raised the money by selling many of her goods including her house at Espelette. Agnès Souret was laid to rest at her home Basque Country village in a tomb that features a sculpture by Lucien Danglade.

https://www.rhesusnegative.net/staynegative/famous-basques-models/

 

[lynxbythetv]

The following actors are from the Amazon series El Cid.

Celto-Germanic type

Jaime Olías. He could easily pass for British, Belgian, North French or West German.


Celtic type

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Lucía Guerrero. This is how I imagined the Classical Alpine Celtic phenotype (Hallstatt and La Tène). She could very easily pass for Walloon or North French.

Roman type

Francisco Ortiz. I think he could easily pass for a Central or North Italian.


British type (?)

Juan Echanove. He is from Madrid but has a Basque surname. He really reminds me of Boris Johnson.


Iberian type (?)

Jaime Lorente, from Murcia. His phenotype is not Celtic, Germanic, Italic/Roman, Basque, Phoenician, nor Arabic, so I suppose that only leaves Iberian.

Jamie Llorente is the Celtic type in this set and not the girl who i think looks more Germanic.

 

[celtiberian-II]

Phenotypes of the Spaniards​

There are no surprise. All is as it can be expected if we read a Maciamo's post in another thread, which I completely agree and repeat here.

"Yet Spaniards aren't that much of Roman descent."
Many people believe that Spanish are Roman descent, but it is not so much. However, our typical phenotype is quite similar to the (typical) Italian one. I can remember Andy García (Cuban actor with Spanish ancestry) in the role of a Carleone family member (Godfather III). Also Penelope Cruz (Spanish actress) in the role of Ferrari's wife in a recent Italian film. She has also been in other Italian films. Why we are so similar?

"The main ancestry (in Spain) is Celtiberian, which is the combination of Paleolithic Iberian (Cro-Magnon I2), Neolithic Iberian from the Near East on the southern coasts (E-M78, J2), and Celtic (especially in the centre and north, R1b-P312 and G2a3a)."
In my opinion, this is the reason of our similar phenotypes. Observe that this means people with dark hair and eyes (mediterranean type) and also people with blonde hair and blue/green/hazel eyes. All types are well represented in the photos of this thread.

"The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, Suebi, Vandals, and Arabs had only a minimal (but accumulative) impact on the Spanish genetic pool. There has never been a major migration of people from Italy to Spain, less so than from Germany, the Levant or North Africa to Spain."
This is the specific Spanish flavour that produces the very attractive (and exceptional, even in Spain) look of Laura Prats.

 

[norbert]

"The main ancestry (in Spain) is Celtiberian, which is the combination of Paleolithic Iberian (Cro-Magnon I2), Neolithic Iberian from the Near East on the southern coasts (E-M78, J2), and Celtic (especially in the centre and north, R1b-P312 and G2a3a)."

The bulk of the neolithic male line would have been comprised of G2a. Any increase in J2 and E-V13 (a subclade of E-M78) would be due to the Greeks and Romans.

 

[celtiberian-II]

The bulk of the neolithic male line would have been comprised of G2a. Any increase in J2 and E-V13 (a subclade of E-M78) would be due to the Greeks and Romans.

Thank you for your post. I agree with you about the J Roman patrilineage. In my own case, for example, I possibly descend of a legionary in NW Hispania.

The quote is of a Maciamo's post in another thread. To my (limited) knowledge, it is a good resume of our (Spanish) ancestry in terms of autosomal DNA, more related to phenotypes. When Roman conquered Hispania with an army of perhaps several thousand soldiers, about 4 million people lived here. Roma was interested in the tributary contribution of Iberia and no massive migration of Italian families to Hispania has been reported. ¿What was the genetic of those 4 million people? Again, the answer is in the Maciamo's quoted post: the paleolithic WHG (west hunter gatherers), the neolithic anatolian farmers and the Bronze Age Central/North Europe people.

 

[Vallicanus]

Thank you for your post. I agree with you about the J Roman patrilineage. In my own case, for example, I possibly descend of a legionary in NW Hispania.

The quote is of a Maciamo's post in another thread. To my (limited) knowledge, it is a good resume of our (Spanish) ancestry in terms of autosomal DNA, more related to phenotypes. When Roman conquered Hispania with an army of perhaps several thousand soldiers, about 4 million people lived here. Roma was interested in the tributary contribution of Iberia and no massive migration of Italian families to Hispania has been reported. ¿What was the genetic of those 4 million people? Again, the answer is in the Maciamo's quoted post: the paleolithic WHG (west hunter gatherers), the neolithic anatolian farmers and the Bronze Age Central/North Europe people.

Remember that the Rome, Picene and Etruscan papers indicated a predominance of R1b-U152 in Central Italy under the Republic.

 

[HereToLearn]

IMO these are two unmistakeably Spanish phenotypes.

 

[HereToLearn]

I don't mean Nordic. But to the North from Spain. Basques have very white skin. This kind of skin that is pale, milky and greasy. With an smooth look.

In contrast with the more southern type of European, the one that many people always think of "arabic/north african".
The 'Roman phenotype' or what Maciamo calls "Basque type".
Which in Spain should be the "Castillian type".

That goes against my experience.

The most noticeable difference between the Basques and the rest of the country, as far as I could see (and according to my Spanish non-Basque wife) is that they are on average bigger and have a more "ancestral" look. The poster claiming the Basques are "barely with hair" must be hallucinating.

 

[HereToLearn]

Mikel Arteta is a good example of Spanish Basque.