Pcinja Culture group - possible source for R-Z2705?

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PaleoRevenge

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I found an interesting paper from Bulatovic, where he notes a peculiar Iron Age culture in north-east Macedonia and south-east Serbia, which broadly falls under the channeled ware umbrella but it has clear Brnjica cultural features and based on the footnotes, they inhumated. This strongly suggests an act of defiance/independence against the surrounding E-V13 population around them, as Brnjica used to cremate too, the motivation to switch is to differentiate oneself from rival group.

Location and it's cultural features make it a good candidate for the founding population of R-Z2705, the timing of R-Z2705 branching matches Pcinja II phase, which was the height of this culture. The geography is in a very agreeable position where later in antiquity a E-V13 population absorbs R-Z2705 among it's ranks.

Geography wise, this culture seems to correspond with northern Paeonians.

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To associate the haplogroup with the Paeonians is also my favourite hypothesis. Concerning the differentiation of Thracians vs. Paeonians, this is a difficult task, since the available evidence is sparse.

The Agrianians for example being sometimes considered Paeonians, sometimes Thracian.

We can read about the situation in the region in which R-Z2705 was likely centered:

By the end of the 4 th century BC, the Paeonian community of the
Agrianes, which probably remained without a ruler, was annexed by
Audoleon, the king of Paeonia, (ca. 315-285/4 BC). 11 Afterward, in the
tumultuous beginnings of the 3rd century BC, due to the impact under
the invasion of the Celts, and probably more so under the invasion of
the Dardanians, the Agrianes lost the existential supremacy in the ma-
in territories of Kosovo, Polog and the Skopje-Kumanovo region. 12
Namely, Agatharchides of Cnidus states that among the Dardanians
there were people who owned one thousand or more slaves. 13
F. Papazoglu attempts to explain this unusual phenomenon in
detail, but without considering that it is difficult to expect a galloping
increase in the birth of the Dardanians in such a short time as to inha-
bit the large newly conquered terriotories. 14
The Dardanians set off from their home country west of the val-
ley of the Bel (White) Drim river at the beginning of the 3rd century BC,
by no means taking advantage of the demographic draining of a large
number of young Agrianes who left for Alexander III's expedition to
Asia and the Celtic invasion of the Balkans in 280/279 BC. They con-
quered the regions of Kosovo, Južna (South) Morava, possibly Polog
and the regions of Skopje and Kumanovo.
Click to expand...

 
The Pcinja culture had partial basis in Brnjica, while the southern Paeonian territories according Macedonian archeology has basis on the previous Ulanci culture. I would think the unity of both groups came as the result of the LBA turmoil in the transitional period, they must have forged a mutual alliance to beat back the channelled ware invaders and eventually prevailed. Another clue is in the spread of the so called Paeonian bronze objects in the 7th and 6th century. These are religious objects and for them to be adopted by Pcinja territory without any evidence of a migration would suggest the two groups were in some kind of alliance and saw themselves as part of a same group geopolitically.

I did not know that the Illyrian Dardani was pushed back all the way to white Drin. Looks like their attempt to take over the entire Vardar valley in 750 BC ended in massive blow from Cimmerian intervention, which was followed by a northern Paeonian expansion into Kosovo.
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BTW Modern R-PF7566 center of gravity and diversity matches quite well with the Brigoi enclaves around Diber-Peshkopi.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I found an interesting paper from Bulatovic, where he notes a peculiar Iron Age culture in north-east Macedonia and south-east Serbia, which broadly falls under the channeled ware umbrella but it has clear Brnjica cultural features and based on the footnotes, they inhumated. This strongly suggests an act of defiance/independence against the surrounding E-V13 population around them, as Brnjica used to cremate too, the motivation to switch is to differentiate oneself from rival group.

Location and it's cultural features make it a good candidate for the founding population of R-Z2705, the timing of R-Z2705 branching matches Pcinja II phase, which was the height of this culture. The geography is in a very agreeable position where later in antiquity a E-V13 population absorbs R-Z2705 among it's ranks.

Geography wise, this culture seems to correspond with northern Paeonians.

CWxtHCR.png

LswGwCn.png

0NvNwQ9.png

Ub9ls8i.png

VSsQfLi.png

1vvcxZP.png

i9oPnzm.png

noXcK4d.png

Qini53y.png



Click to expand...
Very very interesting, i guess these are more or less the same people that lazic calls the "dented ware" people. Its hard to know because i only have access to minimal papers through google translate.
 
Johane Derite said:
Very very interesting, i guess these are more or less the same people that lazic calls the "dented ware" people. Its hard to know because i only have access to minimal papers through google translate.
Click to expand...

I had to go to the source, dented ware is definitely something else, from 1-2 centuries later and based on the description seems to be Bassarabi impulse.

In Kosovo-Metohija, to the settlements and hoards of the 8th –7th century BC correspond the contemporaneous necropolises at Široko (near Suva Reka), Vlaštica and Karagač, where there are cremation burials under low mounds, a newly-introduced burial rite in the areas. Discussion about the origin of the pottery and bronze artefacts of the 8 th –6 th centuries BC from the settlements in Kosovo-Metohija, the south Morava valley and the upper Vardar valley ended long ago with the conclusion linking the decoration and shapes of these inds with the lower Danube and eastern Balkan areas. Thus, the archaeological finds dated to the 8th–6th centuries BC clearly show the appearance in the future Dardanian area of a people closely related to the inhabitants of Thrace and the lower Danube Basin.
Click to expand...
www.academia.edu

КО СУ БИЛИ ДАРДАНЦИ? Who Were the Dardani?

КО СУ БИЛИ ДАРДАНЦИ? Who Were the Dardani?
www.academia.edu

The only mystery for me is the Glasinac culture, it clearly expanded in the same time frame as dented ware, but it seems it did not expand much into Kosovo? Where did the Glasinac culture bearers that invaded the entire Vardar valley come from? I'd like to see an answer to that part. But based on what I am reading.

After LBA most of Kosovo is channelled ware territory.
In the 9th century BC there is some intrusion by Pcinja culture but it limited to eastern parts of Kosovo.
In the 8th-6th century, it is mostly under dented ware who are Bassarabi derived, so the channeled ware get reinforced by a new impulse.
5th-4th century northern Paeonian (likely decendents of Pcinja culture) expand into Kosovo, the real expansion likely happened under Macedonian protection as a buffer defense for Macedon, to place allies in it's back rear.
4th-1st century Illyrian takeover.

Based on this, Dardani is either a pre-Thracian name adopted by the Thracians when they took over para-Paeonian LBA territories, or an actual Daco-Thracian name. I think the first option seems more logical.
Illyrians kept the name and it would explain why the Romans noted an adjacent Illyrian tribe Pirustae to distinguish Illyrian from non-Illyrian Dardani.
Either way it is clear that the historical Dardanian kingdom expanded Illyrian anthronyms such they appear to be the majority in Kosovo, a strange situation since most of IA, most of Kosovo(2/3) was under Daco-Thracian cultural horizon, the only explantion would be that the Dardanian kingdom was ruled by Illyrians.

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The linguistic line an a modern map.
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It adds to the fact that Darda, Dardanus appears quite frequently in Daco-Mysian and Thracian world.

Also, one interesting fact is that Monunius the Dardanian King name appears outside of it only among Odrysian Thracians, another Monunious son of Berisades.

Per D. Garasanin Psenicevo Culture kept close contacts to the Mediana Group, which should be the Dardanian precursor cultures.
 
So this is the chronology of Kosovo after LBA
  • 11th-9th century: channelled ware territory.
  • In the 9th century there is some intrusion by Pcinja culture but it is very limited to eastern parts of Kosovo.
  • At the end of 9th(800 BC), Glasinac expand into and through all of Kosovo and beyond.
  • In the 8th-6th century, dented ware takes over roughly 6/10 of Kosovo. It is Bessarabi derived, the conquered channeled ware likely asked their nothern kin for help/intervention.
  • 5th-4th century northern Paeonian (likely descendants of Pcinja culture) expand into Kosovo, the bulk of this expansion happens in the 4th century under Macedonian protection as a buffer defense for Macedon, to place allies in it's back rear.
  • 4th-1st century Illyrian reexpansion/historical Dardanian kingdom.

For most of the Iron Age, the ethnic frontier was the blue line, while by the Roman rule it had shifted to the orange line:
nYCTtqj.png



The peak of Illyrians must have been 800-750 BC where they had taken the entire Vardar valley and groups of Illyrians pushed through southern Serbian almost to the Bulgarian border. Bassarabi culture intervenes and Illyrians are pushed back to the blue line, while the Vardar group suffers a heavy defeat from Thraco-Cimmerian invasion and retreats to Albanian and western Kosovo.

The Morava valley remained Thracian throughout the Iron Age and was still so under Roman rule. The Paeonians were under Thracian sphere of influence though not a Thracian people, and allied themselves with the Macedonians as a means to relieve the Thracian pressure.
 
These eastern Balkan branches of R-PF7563 were likely also part of northern Paeonians, though their origins likely go back Bubanj-Hum. These particular branches clearly came with E-V13 into Albania.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y83965/

R-BY16680 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com


They are likely the remnants of Bubanj Hum EBA culture:
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A possible eastern matt-painted branch which would have migrated to Anatolia after Brygian collapse.

R-FGC42003 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

The alleged Anatolian/Armenian branch, based on it's TMRCA might be Balkan derived too, 900 BC, that's around when Brygians leave Macedonia.

R-Y95829 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
 
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