Napoleon I belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1c1* (E-M34)

That’s if you believe that was a legitimate genealogy and not some paid for paper trail by a parvenus son of the minor gentry (his father was a lawyer) who was going to marry into the Habsburgs and needed more ancient beginnings. A good number of historians don’t believe it.

Doesn’t matter genetically. My own results and all the analyses I’ve seen of more northern Tuscans and far eastern Ligurians shows there’s virtually no difference. That they were in Sarzana and the valley of the Magra is irrefutable. There are records in almost every town.

You keep on forgetting the mothers, John. :) His mother was of Ligurian stock, further west.
 
Well if you go by Eurogenes his Corsican sample clusters with me: Emilian, Northwest Tuscan and Eastern Ligurian. I’d bet serious money he’s coastal and thus more affected by Ligurians and Tuscans. Corsicans from the interior are probably slightly different.

What has to be remembered is that Napoleon’s family was of the Tuscan and Ligurian gentry jealous of their status. They weren’t going to admix much with local peasants, at least not in the legitimate line.

The closest “language” to Corsican is Tuscan. For what it’s worth, the proportion of RIb U-152 is high.

Yes, I’ve seen his death mask. The cancer ate away all the extra flesh and he looks more like he looked in his youth, typical of his ancestry. Look up the early paintings of him, before he put on so much weight. He was very good looking, IMO, and of course brilliant. He was an ego maniac, however, convinced of his greatness and his “destiny” since childhood.
 
kingjohn said:
do corsicans cluster genetically close to tuscans ?

his death mask :cool-v:
https://vintagenewsdaily.com/death-mask-of-napoleon-bonaparte/
Click to expand...


Corsican individuals can be modelled as they are, more or less, 85% Tuscan/Ligurian/Emilian + 15% Sardinian. I've seen over a dozen or so of Corsicans results that have been privately tested. In some tools they are closer to Italy than in others. So this model might change and the percentage of Sardinian may decrease.

A minority of the Corsican academic samples, that are also on Eurogenes, might have some French ancestor (a grandfather or great-grandfather, but not more than this).

In the south of Corsica are more frequent the Corsicans that may have recent Sardinian ancestors. If for centuries the island of Corsica has mainly maintained relations with Liguria and Tuscany, in recent years groups of migrants from all over Italy have arrived in Corsica, even from southern Italy. In addition clearly also those arrived from France, which in part are completely French and in another part are French of foreign origin (north Africans, mostly).


In this PCA you see that the Corsicans are west of the Tuscans (the dots in pink and light red) and of the Emilians and Ligurians (the dots in green).

s58YFip.jpg
 
@kingjohn

This is a good example of Corsican accent and language from Corsica cismontana (Norhern Corsica) also called Corsica suprana (dialect is also named supranacciu).

From a syntactic point of view the Corsican language is considered related to the Tuscan language but for all the rest the Corsican language shows links also to the central-southern languages of Italy.


 
Interesting that he belonged to the Natufian subclade. I wonder Hitler's subclade was it E-V13 or some other E-M35.
 
Progon said:
Interesting that he belonged to the Natufian subclade. I wonder Hitler's subclade was it E-V13 or some other E-M35.
Click to expand...


most of 9% e1b1b1 in austria is e-v13
so i bet on e-v13 for hittler ....

e-m34 is not natuffian
the natuffian is the upstream clade e-z830 :cool-v:
but e-m34 was found in neolithic ppnb site in jordan
so it looks very levantine ....:smile:
but you see that napoleon branch E-PH3893 aquired many mutations to end in his branch
(Z841, L791, Y4971, Y4976, Y4970 and PH3893) under M34
might be that many of the e-m34 in italy will end on his specific branch ...

p.s
if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
out of the blue in tuscany :smile:
 
kingjohn said:
most of 9% e1b1b1 in austria is e-v13
so i bet on e-v13 for hittler ....

e-m34 is not natuffian
the natuffian is the upstream clade e-z830 :cool-v:
but e-m34 was found in neolithic ppnb site in jordan
so it looks very levantine ....:smile:
but you see that napoleon branch E-PH3893 aquired many mutations to end in his branch
(Z841, L791, Y4971, Y4976, Y4970 and PH3893) under M34
might be that many of the e-m34 in italy will end on his specific branch ...

p.s
if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
out of the blue in tuscany :smile:
Click to expand...

Did I misunderstand the paper? I thought they followed the mutation trail up and through Anatolia/Armenia and west?
 
kingjohn said:
if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
out of the blue in tuscany :smile:
Click to expand...

The data comes from Julie Di Cristofaro's French study of the Corsicans? It's a study full of errors, pure amateurism. In any case there is no academic modern sample from Arezzo, there is one from the province of Arezzo that is from the Casentino, an isolated area in Tuscany on the border with Umbria and Marche that was included during the Augustan age in the Regio VI Umbria and that some agenda-driven Italian geneticist like Piazza used to speculate on the Etruscans. But, apart from the fact that E-M123 at low percentages has now been found everywhere in Italy and even in Sardinia and Veneto, E-M123 is thought to have a TMRCA about 18,000 years ago, it is too old to think it is due to movements only from the Iron Age, and Napoleon Bonaparte's male line is indeed native from Lunigiana, where living people on the La Spezia side with his clade still exist today, likely related to him. And Lunigiana has no relation to the Casentino, because geographically distant. The only relation concerns the legends according to which the Casentino was inhabited by Ligurian tribes in the past, like the Lunigiana. But archaeology has never found any evidence of this.

2013 Map
jfyI439.png
 
Pax Augusta said:
The data comes from Julie Di Cristofaro's French study of the Corsicans? It's a study full of errors, pure amateurism. In any case there is no academic modern sample from Arezzo, there is one from the province of Arezzo that is from the Casentino, an isolated area in Tuscany on the border with Umbria and Marche that was included during the Augustan age in the Regio VI Umbria and that some agenda-driven Italian geneticist like Piazza used to speculate on the Etruscans. But, apart from the fact that E-M123 at low percentages has now been found everywhere in Italy and even in Sardinia and Veneto, E-M123 is thought to have a TMRCA about 18,000 years ago, it is too old to think it is due to movements only from the Iron Age, and Napoleon Bonaparte's male line is indeed native from Lunigiana, where living people on the La Spezia side with his clade still exist today, likely related to him. And Lunigiana has no relation to the Casentino, because geographically distant. The only relation concerns the legends according to which the Casentino was inhabited by Ligurian tribes in the past, like the Lunigiana. But archaeology has never found any evidence of this.

2013 Map
jfyI439.png
Click to expand...

yes so it is a bad research :thinking:
thanks for clarify that it is from casentino and not 5-6% like the corsican paper said :good_job:
good that i said : "if i am not wrong" because i wasn't sure :smile:
i agree with you that e-m123 is damn old
so who knows how it ends in italy
 
kingjohn said:
yes so it is a bad research :thinking:
thanks for clarify that it is from casentino and not 5-6% like the corsican paper said :good_job:
good that i said : "if i am not wrong" because i wasn't sure :smile:
i agree with you that e-m123 is damn old
so who knows how it ends in italy
Click to expand...

We already discussed this paper on the Corsicans when it came out. After that discussion I reread it several times and found many other errors. A tremendous error on the R1bs from Pisa (which is actually the usual sample from Volterra that is in the province of Pisa), this study states that all are R1b-L23 when in fact most of these R1bs from Volterra are dowstream and go up to R1b-U152, as shown by more recent papers that analyzed the same sample. A very big mistake. I'm not telling you that in the sample of the Casentino E-M123 doesn't exist, I'm telling you that it can't be this study that tells you exactly how many there are. And anyway the main problem remains, E-M123 is indeed damn old, how can all E-M123 have arrived in the last 2500/3000 years when it was born 18,000 years ago?

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36732-Prehistoric-migrations-shaped-Corsican-Y-chromosome
 
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Angela said:
The one quarter Corsican genes were already washed out. :)
Napoleon was furious when Jerome left for America to strike out on his own. He liked putting his siblings on European thrones for support.
If you can't trust your family....well, he couldn't.
Click to expand...
Yes got irish american genes instead :smile:
I am no expert in anthropology
But he looked alpine type :thinking:
 
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I am Del Turco and those are my markers at E-Y49685. As I am not an expert in this field can you tell me anything about my genetics? I noticed it was referenced above. Thanks
 
Turksteelman said:
I am Del Turco and those are my markers at E-Y49685. As I am not an expert in this field can you tell me anything about my genetics? I noticed it was referenced above. Thanks
Click to expand...

hello
you need to ask farroukh from e3b haplozone and anthrogenica
he is truly expert in e3b:thinking:
all i know is that e-L791 look like the european branch of e-m34 ( with russia, sardinia , france representatives ).....
while my branch e-m84 more in arabia ( with extension to south italy and iberia )
all i know is that your branch E-Y49685 is interesting
with this albanian maybe a balkan conection who knows ...:thinking:
there is a paper coming soon on roman dna from serbia
1 individual is e-m123
he might be e-L791 branch
like you ( we should wait) :smile:
that is all i know
regards
adam
 
kingjohn said:
very cool :cool-v:
Del -turco is in yfull with an albanian
( and i know e-m123 is rare 1-2% in albania)
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y49685/
so he is very interesting case :thinking:
Click to expand...


Consider that in Italy surnames like Del Turco (and all its derivatives) that recall the ethnic name of the Turks have more possible explanations. For example in Italy with Turks were also called all the Balkan populations that had ended up under Turkish domination and sought refuge in Italy or who were not Christian. To make you understand better, in the Italian registers there are examples of people coming from Dalmatia (today a region of Croatia) who were called "Turks".

But at the same time in some of these Italian surnames which today refer to the ethnic name of the Turks may derive from nicknames, "behaving like a Turk", "having fought against the Turks" and so on.
 
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