War ISIS enshrines a "theology" of rape

What Clinton did or did not do, or any other nation did or did not do, is IRRELEVANT to the fact that the Serbs built DEATH CAMPS where they tortured and executed thousands, and they engaged in a program of MASS RAPE. None of these deflections change those facts.
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It matters because Mr. Clinton organized those things.

Every man who participated in those atrocities should have been tried in a court of law, and if proven guilty should have been executed.p
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Exactly, and do you know who was the first convicted for the Srebrenica massacre? Was he a Serb?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dražen_Erdemović

Do you know who was a commander of his platoon? Does Franc Kos sound Serbian to you? Not to me.
http://research-srebrenica-genocide.../slovenian-franc-kos-srebrenica-genocide.html


The fact that everything possible has been done to shield those men and to engage in a cover up is a moral obscenity.
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Exactly the opposite. This is not about cover up, but about lack of evidence. As Stella Jatras says: (source)
"In that context, the accusations of mass rape – and specifically of “Serb rape camps,” which were never shown to have existed anywhere — was part of a calculated campaign of depicting Muslims-white-hats and Serbs-black-hats."

FWIW worth Stella is not Serbian, but an American who worked with U.S. Department of State, U.S. Department of Defense, NASA and the Veterans Administration.
http://www.eserbia.org/sa-history/famous-americans-in-serbian-memory/804-stella-jatras


That doesn't mean that I believe there is any inherent evil in Serbs, or in any ethnic group for that matter. Such atrocities have been committed in many countries.

This is supposed to be a site where, among other things, educated people can analyze history and pre-history, not a site for the defaming of other nations or ethnic groups. Nor should it be a haven for genocide deniers, whether we're talking about the Holocaust or what happened to the Bosniaks. So, be advised.
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And that's exactly what you do. You started it in #3.
 
Ike said:
It matters because Mr. Clinton organized those things.



Exactly, and do you know who was the first convicted for the Srebrenica massacre? Was he a Serb?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dražen_Erdemović

Do you know who was a commander of his platoon? Does Franc Kos sound Serbian to you? Not to me.
http://research-srebrenica-genocide.../slovenian-franc-kos-srebrenica-genocide.html




Exactly the opposite. This is not about cover up, but about lack of evidence. As Stella Jatras says: (source)
"In that context, the accusations of mass rape – and specifically of “Serb rape camps,” which were never shown to have existed anywhere — was part of a calculated campaign of depicting Muslims-white-hats and Serbs-black-hats."

FWIW worth Stella is not Serbian, but an American who worked with U.S. Department of State, U.S. Department of Defense, NASA and the Veterans Administration.
http://www.eserbia.org/sa-history/famous-americans-in-serbian-memory/804-stella-jatras



And that's exactly what you do. You started it in #3.
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Indeed the people who did the Srebrenica massacre or the unit were all of mix origin from elsewhere,merceneries,one convinced Croat,one Slovene,Serb and so on.. the one that guarded Srebrenica were the Dutch army under UN,why did they left the place they guarded so this can happen? today not even in jail,this unit "Serbs" worked for money and someones interests like many in Yugoslavia and did many such atrocities,Srebrenica was indeed someones plan,that's why the things went the way they did,and it was the worst to happen after ww2,they all did evil things,im not defending anyone,all were just stupid and evil enough.
 
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The UN criminal tribunal has spoken, most recently in 2015. It's the same as a finding of guilty in a regular criminal court. Their guilt can no longer be disputed. To quote:

"A judge at the UN Yugoslav tribunal has upheld the convictions of five men for their role in the Srebrenica massacre.

Sentences for four of the men, high-ranking officials in the Bosnian Serb Army in 1995, were also confirmed.

They had appealed against their convictions in 2010 for a range of crimes including genocide.
About 8,000 Bosnian men and boys were killed in Srebrenica in just three days in 1995 - the worst atrocity on European soil since the Holocaust.

Those life sentences were confirmed on Friday, as were the sentences of 35 years for Drago Nikolic, and 13 years for Vinko Pandurevic. The sentence of the fifth man, Radivoge Miletic, was reduced from 19 to 18 years.

The atrocity took place a few months before the end of the Bosnian war, when 20,000 refugees fled to Srebrenica to escape Serb forces.


It was an enclave protected by UN Dutch soldiers but was overrun by paramilitary troops led by the Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic - after which reports of atrocities began to emerge.


Some of the accused reported directly to Gen Mladic - who is himself currently on trial at the tribunal in The Hague, also accused of genocide.

The accused

Vujadin Popovic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war in June 2010; sentenced to life imprisonment
Ljubisa Beara

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to life imprisonment
Drago Nikolic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of aiding and abetting genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to 35 years in jail
Radivoge Miletic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of crimes against humanity; sentenced to 19 years in jail

Vinko Pandurevic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of crimes against humanity and violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to 13 years in jail

If one wants truth one looks to proceedings of recognized courts, not to the excuses and misinformation peddled by Serbian apologists. To accuse Bill Clinton or any other foreign leader of the murder of these people is insanity of the highest order.

That individual nationalists of other ethnicities in the Balkans have been found to be guilty of war crimes(which I pointed out in a prior post) does not negate the guilt of the Bosnian Serbs, nor does it change the fact that the vast majority of the war crimes were planned and committed by members of the Serb forces, and, indeed, by men at the highest echelons of those forces.

These comments are equivalent to Holocaust denial. All such further posts will be deleted. The continuation of this behavior will result in infractions.
 
congratulations, the UN criminal tribunal has convicted 5 persons who commited war crimes in 1995

in the mean time war crimes happen every day
I guess the UN criminal tribunal is a very effective weapon to stop all this
 
There were not only five. I posted that article in response to posts saying either a) the genocide never happened or b) if by any chance it did, it was discovered in subsequent years that the Serbs had nothing to do with it.

Let's say, however, for the sake of argument, that only a dozen or a couple of dozen were ever successfully prosecuted for war crimes committed during the Bosnian War. Your position is that because we have a terrible success rate in bringing war criminals to justice we shouldn't bother to prosecute any of them?

If that is your position, the logic escapes me.
 
Angela said:
The UN criminal tribunal has spoken, most recently in 2015. It's the same as a finding of guilty in a regular criminal court. Their guilt can no longer be disputed. To quote:

"A judge at the UN Yugoslav tribunal has upheld the convictions of five men for their role in the Srebrenica massacre.

Sentences for four of the men, high-ranking officials in the Bosnian Serb Army in 1995, were also confirmed.

They had appealed against their convictions in 2010 for a range of crimes including genocide.
About 8,000 Bosnian men and boys were killed in Srebrenica in just three days in 1995 - the worst atrocity on European soil since the Holocaust.

Those life sentences were confirmed on Friday, as were the sentences of 35 years for Drago Nikolic, and 13 years for Vinko Pandurevic. The sentence of the fifth man, Radivoge Miletic, was reduced from 19 to 18 years.

The atrocity took place a few months before the end of the Bosnian war, when 20,000 refugees fled to Srebrenica to escape Serb forces.


It was an enclave protected by UN Dutch soldiers but was overrun by paramilitary troops led by the Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic - after which reports of atrocities began to emerge.


Some of the accused reported directly to Gen Mladic - who is himself currently on trial at the tribunal in The Hague, also accused of genocide.

The accused

Vujadin Popovic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war in June 2010; sentenced to life imprisonment
Ljubisa Beara

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to life imprisonment
Drago Nikolic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of aiding and abetting genocide, crimes against humanity, violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to 35 years in jail
Radivoge Miletic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of crimes against humanity; sentenced to 19 years in jail

Vinko Pandurevic

Pleaded not guilty to all charges. Convicted of crimes against humanity and violation of the laws or customs of war; sentenced to 13 years in jail

If one wants truth one looks to proceedings of recognized courts, not to the excuses and misinformation peddled by Serbian apologists. To accuse Bill Clinton or any other foreign leader of the murder of these people is insanity of the highest order.

That individual nationalists of other ethnicities in the Balkans have been found to be guilty of war crimes(which I pointed out in a prior post) does not negate the guilt of the Bosnian Serbs, nor does it change the fact that the vast majority of the war crimes were planned and committed by members of the Serb forces, and, indeed, by men at the highest echelons of those forces.

These comments are equivalent to Holocaust denial. All such further posts will be deleted. The continuation of this behavior will result in infractions.
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Ike said:
No problem. We do realize that it is not the majority. I believe that most of the Americans (>90%) are decent and hard working people who believe in democracy. They were just in delusion. Considering my losses, I thank you for your sincere feelings, and must say that I was lucky if compared to some people and their awful experiences. We can continue this subject on PM, but now lets get back on the subject.
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Congratulations on the court case, I'm really glad this roller coaster of information has been taken care off :)
clapping_pony_icon___season_four_twilight_by_travispony-d7k8wov.gif
Pic Source:http://travispony.deviantart.com/art/Clapping-Pony-Icon-Season-Four-Twilight-457271167

Ike said:
Muslim in general have a problem, because their religion forbids them express their sexuality freely. I know that some Muslims will feel offended, but I find this idiotic (if it's true). (source)

"Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [i.e. Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetizing vaginas." - Al-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, p. 351

"A man asked the Prophet : 0 Prophet of God, will the inmates of Paradise have sexual intercourse ? He said: Anybody among them will be given sexual strength of seven, persons among you. The Prophet said : An inmate of Paradise will have five hundred hurs, four thousand unmarried women and eight thousand widowed women. Each of them will keep embracing him for the duration of his whole worldly life time. He also said: There will be markets in Paradise in which there will be no buy and sale, but there will be men and women. If any man will wish to have sexual intercourse with a woman, he will do at once. The Hurs will sing in Paradise on divine purity and praise-we are most beautiful Hurs and we are for the honoured husbands.", Al Ghazzali, "Ihya Uloom Ed-Din (The Revival of the Religious Sciences) Vol. 4", Death and Subsequent Events 430


Don't know what their idea is, but they really should have more sex here on Earth and relax a bit. I really don't understand how can someone believe for himself that he is a spiritual person just for restraining himself from sex for 50 years, with an idea to obtain an eternal orgy with young, beautiful virgins. Nothing spiritual about it, it's pure materialism and foxiness.
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@Angela Now that we got the 20 year old genocide out of the way, how shall we go about commenting on ISIS's theology? :)
 
Angela said:
The UN criminal tribunal has spoken, most recently in 2015. It's the same as a finding of guilty in a regular criminal court. Their guilt can no longer be disputed.
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1. I'm sure that it cannot be disputed, but the justice hasn't been completed. I'm waiting to see Bill Clinton, Robin Cook, Madeline Albright, Warren Zimmerman, Javier Solana, Wesley Clark, Tony Blair and the rest of the gang in their prison cells. It is exactly the same court organized and funded by the same people who planned and organized most atrocities in former Yugoslavia. Mr. Clinton and his war mongering companions. SR Yugoslavia was even in war with those people. American war of aggression and looting of 1999, which was not authorized by UN, was a pinnacle of their ideas for the destruction of what was left free of former Yugoslavia. They are aggressors, mass murderers, occupators and looters. I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/158367084X/counterpunchmaga

It is obvious that you either have no courage or wish to face the truth, but there are Americans who are willing to stand for it, and would probably be ashamed of you.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-srebrenica-massacre-was-a-gigantic-political-fraud/5321388



2. Why don't you comment on the report I've already linked , where OSCE observer who was on Kosovo reports that US war was responsible for Albanian exodus from Kosovo? I guess it's easier to blame Yugoslavia. I can't believe that you have the courage to discuss the rape cases with your global 'blame the victim' approach.
http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/rkeith.htm




3. Once again, why did US talked Muslims into denying his peace plan acceptance? Why don't you answer? It happened 2 times:

First time in 1992. for Carrington-Cutiliero plan:

"On 18 March 1992, all three sides signed the agreement; Alija Izetbegović for the Bosniaks, Radovan Karadžić for the Serbs and Mate Boban for the Croats.
On 28 March 1992, after a meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia Warren Zimmermann in Sarajevo, Izetbegović withdrew his signature and declared his opposition to any division of Bosnia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace...Bosnian_War#Carrington.E2.80.93Cutileiro_plan


Second time in 1995, when Owen-Stoltenberg plan was in question. Already been linked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUuhSGnLvv8&feature=youtu.be&t=25m



4. Now why did US government wanted for war to begin, and why didn't they want it to end? I suggest you to watch less TV and newspaper, and read more real books. It has very much with ISIS and it's current activity
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07...s-not-true-an-interview-with-diana-johnstone/
US war 1.jpg

NATO and CIA cannot hide their bloody tracks. They are all over the planet:
http://journal-neo.org/2014/12/17/isis-bloody-footprints-lead-from-nato-territory/
 
Angela said:
There were not only five. I posted that article in response to posts saying either a) the genocide never happened or b) if by any chance it did, it was discovered in subsequent years that the Serbs had nothing to do with it.

Let's say, however, for the sake of argument, that only a dozen or a couple of dozen were ever successfully prosecuted for war crimes committed during the Bosnian War. Your position is that because we have a terrible success rate in bringing war criminals to justice we shouldn't bother to prosecute any of them?

If that is your position, the logic escapes me.
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this thread is about war crimes commited every day today by ISIS

it was you in post nr 3 who told me I should be outraged by the Serbs

the Yugoslav war was - despite all the cruelties happening - a small local war like many are still happening today

ISIS and the like form a worldlwide threat today
 
bicicleur said:
this thread is about war crimes commited every day today by ISIS

it was you in post nr 3 who told me I should be outraged by the Serbs

the Yugoslav war was - despite all the cruelties happening - a small local war like many are still happening today

ISIS and the like form a worldlwide threat today
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I don't disagree, Bicicleur. Beyond the obvious, which is that this is morally repugnant, the geo-political implications are worrisome. What happens if this movement comes to control large swathes of the Middle East? What if they come to control all the oil supplies in the region? What will be the implications for the world economy? Also, how serious are they about exporting this "theology" to Europe? How receptive will the restive Muslim populations of Europe be to that message? Most worrisome of all, what are the possibilities for a sort of doomsday scenario where the leaders of this movement might get their hands on nuclear weapons. It's bad enough that the Iranians will have them soon.

What can be done about any of this? What will work? What, and this is a separate issue, what do the European nations have the will to do?

I don't have the answers to any of that, just questions.
 
I have the same taughts, worries and feelings.

I should be more worried than you. Because of its proximity the threat is bigger for Europe than America.

I hope there is just a small minority of European Muslims that sympathise with ISIS and the like, but I'm sure there are. It's impossible to tell how many.
I have a feeling Muslims in America are less radical. Am I correct?

Europe should learn how to defend itself. It doesn't know how to and is not equiped, because it has relied to much on America to do the dirty work whenever that was needed.

si vis pacem, para bellum
 
bicicleur said:
I have the same taughts, worries and feelings.

I should be more worried than you. Because of its proximity the threat is bigger for Europe than America.

I hope there is just a small minority of European Muslims that sympathise with ISIS and the like, but I'm sure there are. It's impossible to tell how many.
I have a feeling Muslims in America are less radical. Am I correct?

Europe should learn how to defend itself. It doesn't know how to and is not equiped, because it has relied to much on America to do the dirty work whenever that was needed.

si vis pacem, para bellum
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You're absolutely right about all of this, in my opinion.

The only gloss I would add is that I don't think it's just that Europe has gotten too used to the U.S. being the policeman. I think the internal ethnic tensions in Europe make speaking and planning in a united way very difficult. Then there's the fact that Europe was drenched in blood during the 20th century. Many Europeans are sickened by the thought of any more wars. It's totally an understandable reaction. The U.S. last fought a war like that in the 1860's. Time has muted the impact of the carnage.

Many Europeans, and Americans too, have learned the wrong lessons from history, in my opinion. Unilaterally adopting a pacifist approach is not going to ensure that there won't be blood shed; it just ensures that when it happens you will lose. Human beings haven't changed. Human behavior hasn't changed. The ambitions of certain nation states or certain radical religious groups hasn't changed. One has to be ready to cooperate, to trust, certainly one shouldn't be the aggressor, but one also has to be prudent and cautious, and one has to be informed and ready and armed to protect oneself if necessary, should other forces do the unthinkable. That's true in life as well as in geopolitics.

As to the Muslims in the U.S., there's a certain amount of distrust of them, and a few reports of unacceptable things being taught in certain mosques, but it is not the same as it is in Europe. For one thing, the numbers are much smaller. For another, they are far more assimilated than the Muslims of Europe. It's just a different situation. The identity is a civic one, not an "ethnic" one. The pressure to become "American" is very strong, but more importantly, it's made very attractive. I can attest to it because I experienced it.

The Tsarnaev brothers of the Boston Marathon infamy were an abberation, in my opinion. The Uncle's reaction: ""You put a shame on our entire family -- the Tsarnaev family -- and you put a shame on the entire Chechen ethnicity," Tsarni said. When asked what provoked the bombing suspects, the uncle stated: "Being losers, hatred to those who were able to settle themselves -- these are the only reasons I can imagine."

In most of the cases which have taken place on U.S. soil, they so far all appear to be instances of young men having a severe psychiatric break who are largely just using jihadist rhetoric to clothe what is really severe mental illness. It's like the school shooting phenomena. It's a form of what the police call "suicide by cop". What we see in Europe, is, I think, largely different.
 
Immigrants in the US have to find a job and integrate to survive.
In Europe immigrants are welcomed by a local agency with 'social' workers who don't use their own resources but taxpayers money.
They provide housing and money for expenses like food, clothing, utilities and transportation.
They attract poor illiterate uneducated people who were allready living in the margin of society in their country of origin.
They are given no incentives to find a job or integrate.
They don't even bother to learn the language of their new country. They form communities with other people with the same language and origin.
They are neither apt nor have the ambition for a job.
The birth rate in these communities is very high. The more children, the more money they recieve.
The 2nd generation is neither apt nor is interested in school but become jealous of their classmates.
They become small criminals. It became known that over 80 % of durg dealers in Antwerp are Morrocans of Berber origin. Yet who speaks about that is labeled a 'racist'.
More than 50 % of Europeans that go to join ISIS in Syria have a criminal record. They have allready spoiled their own future in Europe for themselves.
The Thalys terrorist of 21 august (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Thalys_attack) fits exactly that profile (he is a young Marrocon with a criminal record for drug dealing, I don't know whether Berber or Arab).
In Belgium and France the biggest worries are the Morrocans, in the UK it is the Pakistanis and other nationalities in other countries.

In order to cope with the new wave of immigrants among who this time there are also real refugees all immigrant agencies should be reorganised.
All 'social' workers should be thrown out and replaced by correct but severe and pragmatic people.
I don't think it is going to happen.

The west was never friend with corrupt and cruel dictators like Kahdafi, Sadam Houssain or Assad, and so it should be.
But we ('the west') should never have tried to overthrow them as we are unable to install a stable and better regime.
Bush Sr was a wise man when he launched Desert Storm but didn't let his troops attack Bagdad.
His son was probably the stupidest president in American history.
Democracy has many flaws but it may work in America and Europe. But we shouldn't try to impose it in other parts of the world.
We shouldn't blaim ourselves for whatever goes wrong in the world nor should we allow others to do so.
We should defend our own values and our own way of life.
There are some principles to defend but there is also a lot of nonsense coming out of the offices of the United Nations.

There is nothing I can do, just ventilate my opinion.
 
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