Is there a Y-DNA haplogroup associated with Neanderthals?

A human female interbred with a Neanderthal male 220 000 years ago, but for some strange reason scientists can't tell what Haplogroup it was.
 
bigblob said:
Bear in mind Neanderthals did not all carry the exact same Y-DNA and MTDNA. Also, modern humans migrated Out of Africa many. many times with a hybrid modern human found in China and dated 260 000 years. A 200 000 year old Neanderthal found in Germany, carried human DNA. Its very likely that many ancient Neanderthals carried modern human Haplogroups long before the supposedly 70 000 year migration Out of Africa.
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Huh. Cite for the German one, that is a new one for me?

Anyway, the Y-chromosome is the only chromosome that does not have an identical match, so it does not exchange genes with a partner every generation. It wanders down the ages whistling with very little change, just stopping to pick up a shiny-looking mutation now and then. Speculation: But if you have two species with interfertility issues crossing, you will often see a male-line sterility so the Y-chromosome does not pass on.

Despite overlapping with neanderthals for thousands of years, successful hybrids seem to have been rare. And mostly one way, Neanderthal DNA squired into the human lineages. Even late Neanderthals analysed to high coverage do not seem to carry human DNA. And it seems we did not breed with most Neanderthal lines we encountered.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/science...-to-neanderthal-genomes-over-200000-years-ago

Its likely neanderthal Y-DNA is extinct in modern humans.

There are plenty of Neanderthal hybrids found in Europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagar_Velho_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peștera_cu_Oase#Oase_1

Neanderthal DNA still influence skin colour and hair colour of modern humans and behaviour:
https://www.seeker.com/culture/beha...nfluences-the-looks-and-behavior-of-modern-hu
Neanderthal DNA influenced the shape of modern European brain and skull. Neanderthal gees still influencing the immune system of Eurasians
Looking for Neanderthal hybrids? Look at modern Europeans. Asians also interbred with Denisovan at least twice.
 
Neanderthals did not become extinct, they became modern humans. DNA taken from Neanderthals shows they had light skin, blonde hair and blue eyes or olive skin, dark hair and eyes depending where they lived.

So you have blonde, blue eyed, white modern Europeans. What are the chances they are not Neanderthal hybrids?

Neanderthal looking EXACTLY like a modern European:
hi-neanderthal-852.jpg
 
This rubbish that Europeans developed white skin only 6000 years ago also needs to come to an end. Both Cheddar Man and LaBrana Man were likely South Asian in origin. LaBrana Man carried Haplogroup Y-DNA C6 and its likely Cheddar Man also carried this Haplogroup. Haplogroup C is South Asian in origin.

If Neanderthal genes are still influencing the skin colour and hair colour of modern Eurasians, its likely this goes back to the interbreeding with Neanderthals.

Oldest remains found with blonde hair is dated 15 000 years and the remains were found in Russia. Oldest European with blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin is dated 7700 years and was found in Sweden.

7700 Motala Man:


serveimage
 
bigblob said:
DNA taken from Neanderthals shows they had light skin, blonde hair and blue eyes or olive skin, dark hair and eyes depending where they lived.
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It doesn't show that.

So you have blonde, blue eyed, white modern Europeans. What are the chances they are not Neanderthal hybrids?
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Native Americans have much more Neanderthal admixture than Europeans, as do many East Eurasian populations. Those aren't blond or very lightly pigmented as a rule.
 
bigblob said:
East Asians interbred with the Denisovan twice:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180315140718.htm
Native Americans carried Denisovan DNA:
https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/32/10/2665/1210305

The Denisovan probably resembled Mongolians. Europeans have only Neanderthal DNA.
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The ancestors of Asian went through more admixture events with Neanderthals however, consistent with higher admixture proportions in present populations. Hall (2016):

oHcXM4h.png


Archaic admixture is still very low in any case. It's very unlikely it influenced the morphology of Eurasian populations. That's a recent adaption.
 
There was an article by 'Wikipedia', under the heading 'Genetic history of Europe', that some authors believed 'Y H2' was associated with and carried genetic inheritance from Neanderthals.
I only came across this reference by browsing Y H2, and I do not know if any follow up was made regarding these lines of thought.

Type 'Genetic history of Europe' into google and look under the Palaeolithic heading second paragraph,onwards, and I think the later reference to the 'F' haplogroup may refer to todays 'Y H2', as it is confusing that some 'F's were later changed to the Y H2 haplogroup.
 
There is an interesting article on Wiki about Y-DNA H2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)
H2 is an ancient Haplogroup found in Europe and West Asia. Neanderthals could have carried it and Im sure there are many ancient Haplogroups given to Neandertals by modern humans and Neanderthals to modern humans. I just wish scientist could take Haplogroups from ancient Neanderthal remains. I think the results would be very interesting.
 
gidai said:
The researchers determined DNA sequences of the neanderthals, but did not know what they had on the Y chromosome!? :thinking:
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The thing is that all the Y-DNA haplogroups found until now in humans fit perfectly well in the phylogenetic tree tracing back to the clades of African basal haplogroups A and BT. There has been no exception. It's virtually impossible that Neanderthals, having split from AMH some 700,000 years ago, would have Y-DNA haplogroups that fit somewhere in that Y-DNA phylogenetic tree. The earliest Y-DNA haplogroup, "Adam haplogroup", dates to "only" 200,000 years ago. By the way, scientists have extracted the Y-DNA markers of a Neanderthal male. They estimated the divergence in paternal lineages between Neanderthals and humans at ~588,000 years ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4833433/

We investigate its divergence from orthologous chimpanzee and modern human sequences and find strong support for a model that places the Neandertal lineage as an outgroup to modern human Y chromosomes—including A00, the highly divergent basal haplogroup. We estimate that the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) of Neandertal and modern human Y chromosomes is ∼588 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval [CI]: 447–806 kya). This is ∼2.1 (95% CI: 1.7–2.9) times longer than the TMRCA of A00 and other extant modern human Y-chromosome lineages.
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bigblob said:
This rubbish that Europeans developed white skin only 6000 years ago also needs to come to an end. Both Cheddar Man and LaBrana Man were likely South Asian in origin. LaBrana Man carried Haplogroup Y-DNA C6 and its likely Cheddar Man also carried this Haplogroup. Haplogroup C is South Asian in origin.

If Neanderthal genes are still influencing the skin colour and hair colour of modern Eurasians, its likely this goes back to the interbreeding with Neanderthals.

Oldest remains found with blonde hair is dated 15 000 years and the remains were found in Russia. Oldest European with blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin is dated 7700 years and was found in Sweden.

7700 Motala Man:


serveimage
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Light (not necessarily "European pale") skin certainly predates 6000 years ago by a really large margin, but it's nonsense to say "haplogroup C is South Asian in origin, so Cheddar Man and La Brana were South Asian". By that same token, R1b and R1a probably come from P, and P also probably came from South Asia or Southeast Asia, so it seems R1b and R1a ancient males from Europe were no European either, but South/Southeast Asians. As I said, that statement does not make sense.

Haplogroup C is very old (~53 kya), so by the time of La Brana there had been dozens of thousands of years for the dispersal of C males, and some clades of C are as old as or even older than the haplogroup R as a whole (R1*, R1a, R1b, R2)! Besides, Y-DNA haplogroups do not determine one's ancestry as a whole, actually it accounts for a tiny portion of one's ancestry and can easily become disconnected from the autosomal DNA. Cheddar Man and La Brana were WHG, and EHG were nothing but WHG + a bit of ANE and CHG-like. By that token then there are actually no Europeans at all, because all of them come from WHG ("South Asian" apparently if we're going to determine that based on the origin of the most basal form of Y-DNA haplogroups), EHG (also "South Asian", but with "West Asian" and "North Asian"), ANF ("West Asian") and later extra CHG and Iran_Neolithic ("West Asian" too). If people like La Brana and Cheddar Man, who lived in Europe since the Late Paleolithic at least, were not indigenous Europeans, then no one else is. ;-)

I'm not sure the Motala man had blonde hair, are you sure about that? The main fact I believe light skin (but I think it was initially more "Sicilian light skin" than "Scandinavian light skin") dates to before 10,000 years ago is that the main genes for light skin were present (not necessarily together yet) in ANF, CHG, Iran_Neolithic (only SLC24A5, though), Levant_Neolithic, EHG and SHG. Those populations had diverged from each other much earlier and lived too far from each other, but by the Early Neolithic they all had some of the main mutations for light skin. That suggests to me that there had been enough time for the derived alleles to spread significantly, even if they were not fixed yet.

As for Neanderthal genes influencing in skin and hair color, scientists have already asserted that the gene alleles contributed by Neanderthals are NOT the main determinants of light skin and light hair in modern West Eurasians (or East Eurasians for that matter). The case seems one of convergent evolution, because the alleles humans inherited from neanderthals have a minor contribution, they're not decisive like the skin-lightening mutations in SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 in modern West Eurasians. Remember that skin color is defined by at least 70 (IIRC) different gene variants, it's a cumulative trait, but a few of them have a much higher impact than others. In my opinion, it's probable that Northwest Eurasian people who lacked the main derived alleles that are decisive to "modern" light skin already looked lighter than, say, their tropical African or South Asian cousins, but those mutations they carried were not "powerful" enough to make them look anything close to a white skin. They were probably moderately brown.
 
Humans were interbreeding with Neanderthals 200 000 years ago.
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-neanderthal-s-dna-is-evidence-of-a-lost-tribe-of-humans

The oldest modern human found is dated 300 000 years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Irhoud

The oldest human/ Homo erectus hybrid is dated to 260 000 years and was found in China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Man

Humanity did not originate from one group of humans in one part of Africa, but from many different modern humans who likely did not resemble each other. There were many migrations Out of Africa:
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/...-about-the-first-modern-humans-in-africa.html

Neanderthals were interbreeding with modern humans long before the supposed migration of modern humans 70 000 years ago.
 
Neanderthal genes play a part in hair and skin colour and the ability to tan:
https://www.livescience.com/60691-hair-color-sleep-habits-linked-to-neanderthals.html
Neanderthal genes also influenced the way modern humans behave and their immunity system.
https://www.research-in-germany.org...derthal-dna-still-affect-us-to-this-day-.html

Europeans are nothing but Neanderthal hybrids looking just like their ancient ancestors. Asians also carry Denisovan DNA from interbreeding with 2 different groups of Denisovan.

Neanderthal recreated looking like a modern European:
serveimage
 
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