Religion Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?

[Pararousia]

It was stated in another thread that Allah, Jehovah and the Christian God are all the same. I disagreed with that statement, although I do understand the rationalization behind it. From a Christian stand point, it cannot be true. For in the Gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that comes by faith. The Gospel itself is the unique message from God wherein He states how He has chosen to reveal Himself.

If you are not familiar with the Gospel, the word itself means ?good news?. It is the account of God incarnating Himself into human form and being born to a virgin woman, living a perfect sinless life while yet being tempted in all points as we are, healing the sick, the lame, the blind and the deaf, even raising the dead. This Jesus came to give Himself as the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the entire world, to pay the debt of sin (that which separates man from God) in order to draw mankind back into a relationship to Him.

Again, He has shown us in the Gospels how He wants to be worshipped. But although we know ?about? God, we neither glorify Him as God nor give Him thanks, but our thinking becomes futile and we make up our own ideas of ?God?. This Jesus, Who created the universe, washed the feet of His followers. His humility irked the religious leaders of that day also. When those religious leaders told Him that they were Abraham?s children, Jesus didn?t exercise tolerance, but told them that they were children of the devil. Their gene pool didn?t make them righteous nor did their religious rituals. Again, to them, He pointed out that they were to worship Him by faith, because before Abraham existed, the Lord Jesus existed.

It is this same Jesus Who we are to come to by faith, not any other. There is given no other name under Heaven whereby we may be saved, but at the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[Pararousia]

The post ate my apostrophes....That's "good news" and "about" and "God" and Abraham's children....didn't.... etc. Hope you can figure it out.

 

[jarvis]

no the muslim's Allah and Christain's God are not the same.

anyone who says they are, has not read the Bible or the quran...

in fact most of the old testament muslims say are lies by jewish scribes.

and Im not even going to entertain mohamed gnostic vision of Christ written 800 years after his death...compared with the Gospels written down after the first generation of Christain's died..

but like I say , if you disregard most of the old and new testament, and beleive what gabriel told mohamed in a cave....then yes...muslims's allah and Christains God are exactly the same....

of course by this logic, george washington and hitler are the same , and gandi and mao are the same...and there's oceanfront property in arizona.

and if you buy all that I'll throw the golden gate in free.

 

[mad pierrot]

Yes,

if you look at things from a non-religious, rational, anthropological perspective. Granted, each tradition has redefined god in its own unique way, but they share the same origin, more or less.

Looking beyond the borders of your personal bias can be a challenge.

 

[lexico]

It was stated in another thread that Allah, Jehovah and the Christian God are all the same. I disagreed with that statement, although I do understand the rationalization behind it.

no the muslim's Allah and Christain's God are not the same.

anyone who says they are, has not read the Bible or the quran...

I do not intend to go into apologetics for any particular religion, but would like to comment on the linguistic aspect. I am sure there are wonderful studies conducted in this line of reasoning, but I only have one anecdotal remark to offer.

Religion, as well as other innovations in human civilization, was invented (revealed ? discovered? ???) in the fertile crescent. There came together many nations to enjoy the benefits of agriculture and animal husbandry, and they also learned to worship certain cosmic deities. One major group among many were the Semitic language speakers; the Akkads, the Aramaics, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, etc.

The Canaanite-Hebrew word 'el-elohim' 'god, angel, spiritual being,' the Baylonian 'ilu,' the Aramiaic 'eli,' the neo-Babylonian 'il' are all genetically related to the Arabic 'allah' which goes back to the feminine deity reconstructed as 'allat,' with the feminine ending -t, for 'goddess, mother god.'

In the Hebrew sense of the word, 'el' was not a proper noun, but a generic term designating a spirit or spiritual being which is seldome used alone to refer to the monotheist 'God' but only in compounds such as 'El shaddai' 'god/spirit of the mountain,' or 'Beth-el' 'house of God,' whereas in Arabic 'allah' has become a proper noun refering to the monotheos.

In origin, they all refer to the/a 'spirit' of cosmic significance, yet the particular meanings assigned to them by the respective cultures in their unique historical development took on different colours. As to the particulars, I am not an expert in, as I am not an expert in linguistic matters either.

 

[alexriversan]

an observer of the earth could say "this occurs manmade to me"

i say:

"if you are good to people, people are good to you.
if you are bad to people, people are bad to you.
in this life, or another life."

now, if people pray this 5000 times, it may become true.

 

[Shizu Seraph]

an observer of the earth could say "this occurs manmade to me"

i say:

"if you are good to people, people are good to you.
if you are bad to people, people are bad to you.
in this life, or another life."

now, if people pray this 5000 times, it may become true.

Hmm... I believe you're talking about the Golden Rule, eh? "Do unto others what you would want others to do unto you." *sigh* That, my friends, is the best example of karma. I'll tell you something: everybody's bound to it.

There is no heaven or hell. We all experience it, 24/7. The bullsh*t that we go through aren't punishment; they're consequenses. Our actions determine our due course. Do something "good", and you'll recieve it in turn. Same thing happens when we do "bad". However the world isn't always "black and white". Sometimes we have to choose between the lesser of two evils. At other times things that seem good are actually detrimental in the long run. That's why we can't escape from our hells and nightmares. In fact, they're necessary at times.

I hope this helped...

 

[alexriversan]

Hmm... I believe you're talking about the Golden Rule, eh? "Do unto others what you would want others to do unto you." *sigh* That, my friends, is the best example of karma. I'll tell you something: everybody's bound to it.

There is no heaven or hell. We all experience it, 24/7. The bullsh*t that we go through aren't punishment; they're consequenses. Our actions determine our due course. Do something "good", and you'll recieve it in turn. Same thing happens when we do "bad". However the world isn't always "black and white". Sometimes we have to choose between the lesser of two evils. At other times things that seem good are actually detrimental in the long run. That's why we can't escape from our hells and nightmares. In fact, they're necessary at times.

I hope this helped...

now, it took me a while: to learn how hate occurs as unproductive. and it lowers the own emotional tone. means, to express/have hate feelings, equals self-destructive behaviour.

people who hate (especially without external trigger) support their own end.

 

[Mycernius]

In origin the Christain God, has the same sorce as the Muslim one and the Jewish one. If we take each religion and look at how they developed you can see how the concept of each religions God became their own version. In the beginning was the idea of one god which originated in early Jewish myth. Over time the laws governing these people became the Jewish holy books. along with this were mixed creation myths and a history of their people. By making the book 'Holy' it evelvated it above ordinary books and became seen as the word of God. Then came a man we call Jesus. He looked at the way the Jewish religion was being run and thought that there was a better way. he was, in effect, a religious reformer. His message was non-violent and open to everyone, not just the Jewish community. Of course such teaching threatened the power of the Jewish priests and their control over the people. This can be seen in early Christain history with Catholic church and the way it dealt with other Christain orders. With Jesus being a threat he had to be removed. Whether he died on the cross or not is still a debate that rages on today. For example, why do you give vinegar and water to a dying man unless you wish to save him from a very slow and painful death (vinegar and water acts as a restorative on humans). Because he was matyred he became a focus for the early Christian church. At the time good or powerful people were evelavted to Godhood Julius, Tiberius, Claudius Caesar being examples. This cannot happen in the Christain church as there is only one God. to get around this problem you make your founder an incarnation of God. again this is found in myths from all around the world in where a God take human form.
After Jesus dies the early church is set up and Paul has his conversion on the road to Damascus, becoming St. Paul. He probably has more influence on the Christain Church than Jesus. He takes the teachings of Jesus and explains them in the Pauline letters. This also happens with Jude and John. revelations is just a typical end of the world myth that can again be found in other non-related religions and myths. It is during this period that the origianl Jewish God become the God of the Christian, but with a different message for the Christain religion than the Jewish one. hence there is a change in the perception of God and how to worship it.
Fast forawrd 600 years later and we find a man called Mohammad. He is rich and is happily married and is probably very well read. In this case he has probably had exposure to Christain and Jewish texts. He is a clever man and is not happy with the way that religion around him is going. He takes Jewish and Chrisian teachings and mixes them with Arabic myths to create the Koran. Instaed of him being seen as the incarnation of God he says he was visited by an angel who recicted the Koran to him. the founder of the Mormions did something very similar with the angel Moroni. He adds one more thing to his message. That He has been told that he is the last of Gods prophets. this way he can make sure that nothing can supplant his teachings. It is because of this that the Bahai faith suffers in extreme religious countries because their fionder said he was the next prophet of God, which to Muslims is a form of heresy. With his teaching the God was taken from Christain and Jewish texts and given yet another way to be worshipped and Gods word to the people interpretted another way. In all three religions the God has reamined the same. Just the teaching from various people through history have changed the way each religion perceives and worships it. Sikh get through all this by saying there is one God, but everyone worships God in a different way.

I have probaly offended some people with this text, but when religion is discussed you will always upset some people. Just a note I use the word It for God because there is bound to be somebody somewhere who will say how can God be male or female. To avoid the issue I use It or God. I also use the word Myth as this is how I see religions. As far as I am concerned there is no difference between modern day religions and the ancients religions of the past that we call myths.
:wave:

 

[jarvis]

Isa.53
[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Mycernius]

Ah I see that the 'Lets quote from the Bible' argument is coming into play. As I say to anyone who comes to my door, that is a highly biased history book written by people who have been dead for over 2000 years. It has been translated so many times from the original source that what is says now might be different from what it said then. Chinese whispers come to mind. Other religions and beliefs have different morals and ideas. The Bible is just one of them and is no more correct or wrong from the teachings of Lao-tzu or Mohammad.

 

[Sensuikan San]

I agree.

Thank God I'm an atheist!

?W????

 

[jarvis]

what is an atheist?

 

[Sensuikan San]

If you don't know ... then you're trying to "push" the wrong cause, my friend ...!

Cordially,

?W????

 

[Sensuikan San]

what is an atheist?

That post smacks of being the height of sanctimonious facetiousness !

I am totally disappointed in this weak response to my comment - but it was totally predictable !

In short - I feel that it is high time that someone on this forum had the intestinal fortitude to remind you that this is a forum .... not a bloody pulpit !

Let the moderators do with this what they will !

Cordially,

?W????

 

[Sensuikan San]

Typical !

I just note that "Jarvis" has "logged off" - as usual !

Disgruntled, but vindicated ...

?W????

 

[Mycernius]

Calm down Sensuikan san. Remember at your age you are a respected member of your community and we look on you as a friendly grandfather figure who we occassionally buy a pint for (have a cyber pint on me) . I've said the same thing to many a doorstep preacher and they look at you blankly, as if 'was that a joke?' or you get a nervous laugh. I hope that wasn't a serious question from Jarvis? If it was then I agree with your first response.

 

[Sensuikan San]

Calm down Sensuikan san. Remember at your age you are a respected member of your community and we look on you as a friendly grandfather figure who we occassionally buy a pint for (have a cyber pint on me) . I've said the same thing to many a doorstep preacher and they look at you blankly, as if 'was that a joke?' or you get a nervous laugh. I hope that wasn't a serious question from Jarvis? If it was then I agree with your first response.

Occasionally ?

Cheap bugger !

Sorry, folks! I concede - I did start to lose my cool a tad there, didn't I ?

Apologies all - but ... now and again ... some smartass ... tries to be too much of a smartass !

Best Regards,

?W????

(P.S. - whaddya mean ? "At my age" ?)

 

[jarvis]

seriously, what is an atheist?

 

[Sensuikan San]

???Ã? ?҃?ά?σԃÃ? ?ȃ???έ?˃?ς ????ός