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Religion Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?

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Pararousia said:
.......... We make bad choices and then we're surprised by the consequences?! This past week I went through "computer hell" because of some bad choices *L* but I was never separated from God which by my definition is true "Hell". Nor do I believe atheists are separated from God here and now. They may choose to deny. That's their right, but they will never be truly separated from God's extended goodnesses, beauty and grace until they die and they no longer have "choices". Then all the grace which flows so freely around us each and every day will disappear and they will be plunged into the darkness and torment of this great Separation called Hell. Happy memories will no longer exist only missed opportunities to receive Christ will be remembered. It is a place that was prepared for Satan and his followers; I'm glad I'm not going.

Is that what Christianity is all about?

What a vicious, repugnant, vile and threatening God it is that you follow - or feel threatened by !

Just because I don't happen to believe in this creature, I'm to be subjected to torment..punishment...darkness....?

What if I have been a "Christian" - but murdered my wife - or molested children ...is it worse ? I do hope so!

As for Satan - I may, by your definition be one of his followers (... along with the Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Odinists, Wyccamists and other "Pagans" etc. etc. ) ... but ... I'm sorry ... he won't have me! I don't happen to believe in him,either ! And unlike so many Christians I know - I haven't committed any major sins as far as I'm aware!

I have one question, though ....

Whatever happened to those poor sods who had the bad luck of being born and spent their lives before the birth of Christ?

Some of them at least must have led quite exemplary lives.



Regards

?W????
 
Pararousia said:
.......this great Separation called Hell. Happy memories will no longer exist only missed opportunities to receive Christ will be remembered. It is a place that was prepared for Satan and his followers; I'm glad I'm not going.

!

Just re-read your post....

How can you be so sure ....you're not?

Just pause for thought....( as one of Satan's followers - I may just be aware of something .... you're not!)

?W????
 
I will allways quote from the Bible...I mean to not do so would be like trying to explain America without the consitution...

I go straight to the source..Im not interested in reconstructionists theories..as far as other religions I have read some, but they don't appeal to me in the same sence Christanity does..

I guess my problem with islam is 2 fold..

1.terrorists
2.and the quran backing terrorist actions.

we don't have buddists or hindu ,or majic, or parsi, or pagan,or shinto,or aztec,or senica, or molech worshipers ramming jumbo jets into our sky scrappers...
 
stubborn fundamentalist

jarvis said:
I will allways quote from the Bible...I mean to not do so would be like trying to explain America without the consitution...

I go straight to the source..Im not interested in reconstructionists theories..as far as other religions I have read some, but they don't appeal to me in the same sence Christanity does..

I guess my problem with islam is 2 fold..

1.terrorists
2.and the quran backing terrorist actions.

we don't have buddists or hindu ,or majic, or parsi, or pagan,or shinto,or aztec,or senica, or molech worshipers ramming jumbo jets into our sky scrappers...

Really now? What difference do muslims make from practicioners from other religions? Your premise states that the qur'an backs terrorists. But is that enough to justify that only muslims pose a threat? Why do you keep on marginalizing muslims? Don't you have any idea that anybody, regardless of creed, is capable of spreading terror?

I believe you don't know what fundamentalism is, do you?

Ever heard of the Zealots? Or how about Aum Shinrikyo? Or the Thugee cult, perhaps?

What are you gonna do now, pull out an entire chapter from the Bible? Whip out the entire Acts of the Apostles?

Bite me.
 
Under the Sassanian dynasty, (226AD-641AD) Zoroastrianism became for the first and last time, an official State Religion. The priesthood was invested with importance and power. The Achaemenians had kept a strict separation between the Church and the State, but under the Sassanians, for the first time, there was a Zoroastrian 'Church'. The religion became intertwined with the State and thrived. There was a revival. Many of the scattered texts which had been preserved orally were written down, translated and compiled. Though the early Sassanians were zealous about their own religion, they were tolerant of other faiths.
In contrast, the last years of the Sassanian dynasty seem to be a period of extremes and ironies. It was at once a brilliant society, a cultured and luxurious civilisation, an open society that was receptive to foreign influences, yet was also fiercely nationalistic.21 Other religions were beating at the door: Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism. The Sassanian answer to the menace of the Roman Church was to proclaim Zoroastrianism as the only good and true religion and to sometimes follow this up by savagely persecuting those of other faiths, as descriptions left by Christian martyrs testify.22
Between the lower classes and the nobility existed an unbridgeable gulf.23 On one side there was unbridled luxury and a feverish pursuit of pleasure. On the other, famines and plagues.24 In addition to this spiritual and economic dissatisfaction was political instability. Power-hungry kings and queens ascended the throne and were plotted against and assassinated in quick succession.
It was into this society, ripe for revolution, that the conquerors came-this time not from the west, but from where it was least expected: they came riding from the south, from the deserts of Arabia.



In 632AD, Yazdegard 111, a hastily crowned twenty-year-old boy, fated to be the last of the illustrious house of Sassan, sat on his tottering throne, granting a hearing to a deputation of fourteen Arabs who had come to visit him in his capital, Madayn. All around the young king was chaos. His two army generals who had placed him on the throne had been feuding amongst themselves. On the outskirts of the empire, Arab tribes were engaged in marauding expeditions. Though they had been repelled and could never really be a threat, their existence was a source of some worry.25
"What motives bring you here?" asked Yazdegard. "And why has your nation taken up arms against us?" Noman Makarin, their spokesman replied, "Allah commanded us, by the mouth of His prophet, to extend the dominion of Islam over all nations. That order we obey and say to you, become our brothers by adopting the Faith, or consent to pay tribute, if you wish to avoid war."
"The dissensions which have for some years troubled Persia, must have greatly emboldened you," replied the outraged young king. "Mice and serpents are your food and you have nothing to dress with except the wool of camels and sheep. Who are you that you think yourselves able to fasten on to our empire? Of all the nations of the world you are the poorest, most disunited, the most ignorant, the most estranged from the arts which constitute the sources of wealth and power. If a foolish presumption has taken hold of you, open your eyes and cease to indulge deceitful illusions. If misery and want have driven you out from your deserts, we will grant you food and raiment; we will deal liberally with your chiefs and we will give you a king who will govern you with gentleness and wisdom."
The deputation kept silent for a while, then one of its members broke it. "What you have said about our poverty, our divisions, our state of barbarism is quite true. Yes, we were so wretched that some among us appeased our hunger by feeding on insects and serpents, whilst some killed their daughters to avoid sharing food with them. That is what we have been. But now we are a new people."
"Allah has raised in our midst a man, the most distinguished of Arabs by the nobility of his birth, by his virtues, his genius. He has enlightened our minds, he has extinguished our hatreds, he has united and converted us into a society of brothers under laws dictated by divine wisdom."
"The religion he announced to us, which he called Islam, is the only true religion. He has said to us: 'Complete my work; spread everywhere the dominion of Islam. The earth belongs to Allah.' Now you know who we are and why we have come. It is for you to choose either Islam, or tribute, or war unto death."
Yazdegard laughed, "If I entertained no regard for your character as deputies, I would instantly deprive you of life." Uttering these words, he ordered a bag full of earth to be brought and ironically alluding to the tribute the envoys had ventured to demand, he said to them, "This is all you will get from me. Return to your general; inform him that Rustam will, in a few days, go to bury him with his whole army in the trench of Kadesia." Then he added, "Let this bag be placed on the shoulders of the chief of the deputation and let the men be pushed out from the gates of Madayn." The chief of the Arab deputation, hurried forward eagerly to receive his load and far from being humbled by it, lifted it on his head with an air of jubilation.
A few hours later when Rustam, the Persian general, heard about the deputation and what young Yazdegard had so naively done, he sent men chasing after the Arabs to take away from them the bag full of earth. The Arabs however had progressed so far that all pursuit was in vain.
When they reached the camp, the chief of the deputation, deposited the bag before his general and exclaimed, "The soil of Persia is ours!" 26

And indeed it was. It is said that the Arabs did not owe their success to their political superiority or to the genius of their military leaders. It was the ancient world of Asia, Europe and Africa, that gave them their victory; a world exhausted by war, undermined by social and religious strife and powerless to resist a united, inspired, fanatical and resolute enemy.27
So completely was Zoroastrianism routed out from the country of its birth, that in current popular thinking, the thought of an Iran that was not always Islamic, is inconceivable.



After the Arab conquest, tens of thousands embraced Islam. Many went over to the new faith because it allowed them to preserve their power and influence. Others converted to avoid the payment of poll-tax and to find relief from the persecution that raged around them. But those who were devoted to Zoroastrianism resolved to stick to it at any cost.28
A small band of devoted Zoroastrians, or so our story goes, fled to the inaccessible, mountainous region of Khurasan. But it was only a matter of time before they would have to choose between Islam or death. Either way, the religion would die. So they came down from the mountains to the port of Hormuzd, on the Persian Gulf, from where they set sail. I wonder if they knew where they were going, or whether, casting themselves on God's mercy, they had sailed into the great unknown?
It is said that a violent storm overtook them at sea. They prayed fervently and vowed if they reached land safely, they would build a fire temple. Their prayers were heard. The storm died down, a gentle breeze guided them to shore. They had landed in Diu, an island on the west coast of India, off the state of Gujarat. According to Parsi lore they spent nineteen years on the island of Diu, after which they set sail again and landed in Sanjan also on the west coast of India, either in the year 936AD or in 716AD; I present both dates here because many an intense battle has been fought amongst Parsis over which date is more accurate.
The Hindu ruler, Jadhav Rana, alarmed at the sight of these strangers, forbade any of them to land except four of their wisest men. Four priests stepped onto Indian shores and answered in Sanskrit the questions Jadhav Rana put to them-about their home, their religion, their customs.

"What is it you want from us, strangers from a far land?"
"Freedom of worship, Sire," replied the old priest.
"Granted. What else do you wish?"
"A small piece of land that we could cultivate, so that we may not be a burden to the people among whom we live."
"Granted. In return, what will you do for the country of your adoption?"
The old priest asked for a brass bowl to be filled with milk and brought to the assembly. He then stirred a spoonful of sugar in the bowl and holding it up in his trembling hands asked: "Does any man see the sugar in the bowl of milk?" All shook their heads. "Sire," said the priest, "we shall try to be like this insignificant amount of sugar in the milk of your human kindness."29

Though this story might belong to the realm of unrecorded myth, like all good myths, somewhere embedded in it is the 'ring' of truth. Orthodox Parsis believe that it was actually a gold ring that was dropped into the milk, not a spoonful of sugar. "You see sugar dissolves and we have always maintained our own identity. But the gold ring showed Jadhav Rana that we will not assimilate, at the same time we will not make the milk overflow and yet we will also enhance it."
Whether it was, a spoonful of sugar or a ring of gold, permission to settle was granted by Jadhav Rana on four conditions. The strangers had to adopt the local language Gujarati and give up their own language Persian, their women had to dress as the local women in saris, the men had to give up their weapons and their marriage ceremonies had to be held in the dark.
The refugees prostrated themselves full length on the ground. They picked up handfuls of earth and pressed it to their eyes and forehead, with tears of gratitude streaming down their faces.30
These strangers were called Parsis-to denote the region from where they had come; Pars, (Persia), once the birthplace of mighty empires, now the distant dream of a band of refugees.


when will people wake up?
 
Shizu Seraph said:
Really now? What difference do muslims make from practicioners from other religions? Your premise states that the qur'an backs terrorists. But is that enough to justify that only muslims pose a threat? Why do you keep on marginalizing muslims? Don't you have any idea that anybody, regardless of creed, is capable of spreading terror?

I believe you don't know what fundamentalism is, do you?

Ever heard of the Zealots? Or how about Aum Shinrikyo? Or the Thugee cult, perhaps?

What are you gonna do now, pull out an entire chapter from the Bible? Whip out the entire Acts of the Apostles?

Bite me.


name the country that did'nt have muslim terrorists attacks in the last 5 years

1.russia
2.india
3.spain
4.isreal
5.france
6.england
7.germany
8.USA
9.sudan
10.barbados
 
jarvis said:
name the country that did'nt have muslim terrorists attacks in the last 5 years

1.russia
2.india
3.spain
4.isreal
5.france
6.england
7.germany
8.USA
9.sudan
10.barbados

None, so far. You have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist Muslims. Their interpretation of the Qur'an is distorted from mainstream Islam. They interpret Jihad literally as an armed struggle against "infidels". It's actually the interpretation of the reader which justifies their actions, not the book itself!
 
jarvis said:
we don't have buddists or hindu ,or majic, or parsi, or pagan,or shinto,or aztec,or senica, or molech worshipers ramming jumbo jets into our sky scrappers...

There aren't too many Aztecs left around ... all killed off by Christians.

We have, some of us - in Spain, Ireland and England however .... had bombs go of bang in various locations - thanks to Religious/Political differences - mainly from Christian/Catholic groups.

BTW - My father was Irish Catholic in upbringing .......but didn't plant any ... !

Oh....and ask any Norwegian, just how many churches were burnt last year by "Paganists" .....

You should broaden your reading, Sir/Madam!

?W????
 
why do I "have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist Muslims"?

:/

I don't have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist shintos...

they are not blowing up subways in russia.

I don't have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist buddists..

they are not blowing up train stations in spain

I don't have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist hindus..

they are not ramming planes into skyscrappers

I don't have to understand the psyche of the fundamentalist wiccans..

they are not stapping bombs on themselfs and running into places from paris, to jerusalum, to bagdad...

I suggest that the muslims doing these things are following the quran...infact I can prove it.
 
Sensuikan San said:
There aren't too many Aztecs left around ... all killed off by Christians.

We have, some of us - in Spain, Ireland and England however .... had bombs go of bang in various locations - thanks to Religious/Political differences - mainly from Christian/Catholic groups.

BTW - My father was Irish Catholic in upbringing .......but didn't plant any ... !

Oh....and ask any Norwegian, just how many churches were burnt last year by "Paganists" .....

You should broaden your reading, Sir/Madam!

?W????


talk to the catholics, senorita...

and in truth most of the Aztecs disappeared from the plauge...I mean besides the ones who got sacraficed by their own..
 
jarvis said:
talk to the catholics, senorita...

and in truth most of the Aztecs disappeared from the plauge...I mean besides the ones who got sacraficed by their own..

C'mon - you know I'm a guy! :lover:

Does this mean you separate yourself from Catholics, too ?

They're Christians are they not? What's the difference?

Just a question ....

Regards,

?W????
 
Sensuikan San said:
C'mon - you know I'm a guy! :lover:

Does this mean you separate yourself from Catholics, too ?

They're Christians are they not? What's the difference?

Just a question ....

Regards,

?W????

Catholics , the popery, went against Christain teachings.you cannot find new testament Biblical verses that justify alot of their actions in the past..like the inquzitions....the crusades I could understand..thats self defence...

It took the protestants to get them back on track..

I don't think muslims have a chance for a reformation, because I don't beleive
the muslims terrorists are straying from the korans teachings..

but in the year 2005, I do not see any group starting as much trouble worldwide as muslims...
 
Y'know, Jarvis ...

Just for once .. I can agree with you on something ...!

Yes - The Catholics did go against "Christian Faith" to some degree with the Inquisition. Totally inexcusable (quite vile, actually) - and part of the point of my post.

But I would disagree with your assertion that the Crusades were totally "self defence" - although, given the situation at the time ...... hmmmmm..... plausible enough an excuse.

But weren't the Crusades also something of a hobby project for King Richard ? I know that it cost the English in particular, an awful lot of money and lives.

Your feelings ... ?

?W????
 
jarvis said:
I suggest that the muslims doing these things are following the quran...infact I can prove it.
Just like others can prove that your god proposed &/or committed mass murder. So what?

It took the protestants to get them back on track..
Ah yes, obviously. & that right track was the 30-years war, I suppose?

jarvis said:
the crusades I could understand..thats self defence...
Perhaps you should take a history book instead of the Bible & read up on the crusades.


BTW, Jarvis, copying & pasting is nice & well, but you should give your sources. The text you posted earlier is probably from here:
http://www.parsijourney.com/chapters/intro/intro.html
If not, please state your source!
 
With the possible exception of Umberto Eco, medieval scholars are not used to getting much media attention. We tend to be a quiet lot (except during the annual bacchanalia we call the International Congress on Medieval Studies in Kalamazoo, Michigan, of all places), poring over musty chronicles and writing dull yet meticulous studies that few will read. Imagine, then, my surprise when within days of the September 11 attacks, the Middle Ages suddenly became relevant.

As a Crusade historian, I found the tranquil solitude of the ivory tower shattered by journalists, editors, and talk-show hosts on tight deadlines eager to get the real scoop. What were the Crusades?, they asked. When were they? Just how insensitive was President George W. Bush for using the word crusade in his remarks? With a few of my callers I had the distinct impression that they already knew the answers to their questions, or at least thought they did. What they really wanted was an expert to say it all back to them. For example, I was frequently asked to comment on the fact that the Islamic world has a just grievance against the West. Doesn't the present violence, they persisted, have its roots in the Crusades' brutal and unprovoked attacks against a sophisticated and tolerant Muslim world? In other words, aren't the Crusades really to blame?

Osama bin Laden certainly thinks so. In his various video performances, he never fails to describe the American war against terrorism as a new Crusade against Islam. Ex-president Bill Clinton has also fingered the Crusades as the root cause of the present conflict. In a speech at Georgetown University, he recounted (and embellished) a massacre of Jews after the Crusader conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 and informed his audience that the episode was still bitterly remembered in the Middle East. (Why Islamist terrorists should be upset about the killing of Jews was not explained.) Clinton took a beating on the nation's editorial pages for wanting so much to blame the United States that he was willing to reach back to the Middle Ages. Yet no one disputed the ex-president's fundamental premise.

Well, almost no one. Many historians had been trying to set the record straight on the Crusades long before Clinton discovered them. They are not revisionists, like the American historians who manufactured the Enola Gay exhibit, but mainstream scholars offering the fruit of several decades of very careful, very serious scholarship. For them, this is a "teaching moment," an opportunity to explain the Crusades while people are actually listening. It won't last long, so here goes.

The threat of Islam

Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. The Crusades are generally portrayed as a series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics. They are supposed to have been the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance, a black stain on the history of the Catholic Church in particular and Western civilization in general. A breed of proto-imperialists, the Crusaders introduced Western aggression to the peaceful Middle East and then deformed the enlightened Muslim culture, leaving it in ruins. For variations on this theme, one need not look far. See, for example, Steven Runciman's famous three-volume epic, History of the Crusades, or the BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. Both are terrible history yet wonderfully entertaining.

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression?\an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity?\and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion?\has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt?\once the most heavily Christian areas in the world?\quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

Understand the crusaders

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

Pope Urban II called upon the knights of Christendom to push back the conquests of Islam at the Council of Clermont in 1095. The response was tremendous. Many thousands of warriors took the vow of the cross and prepared for war. Why did they do it? The answer to that question has been badly misunderstood. In the wake of the Enlightenment, it was usually asserted that Crusaders were merely lacklands and ne'er-do-wells who took advantage of an opportunity to rob and pillage in a faraway land. The Crusaders' expressed sentiments of piety, self-sacrifice, and love for God were obviously not to be taken seriously. They were only a front for darker designs.

During the past two decades, computer-assisted charter studies have demolished that contrivance. Scholars have discovered that crusading knights were generally wealthy men with plenty of their own land in Europe. Nevertheless, they willingly gave up everything to undertake the holy mission. Crusading was not cheap. Even wealthy lords could easily impoverish themselves and their families by joining a Crusade. They did so not because they expected material wealth (which many of them had already) but because they hoped to store up treasure where rust and moth could not corrupt. They were keenly aware of their sinfulness and eager to undertake the hardships of the Crusade as a penitential act of charity and love. Europe is littered with thousands of medieval charters attesting to these sentiments, charters in which these men still speak to us today if we will listen. Of course, they were not opposed to capturing booty if it could be had. But the truth is that the Crusades were notoriously bad for plunder. A few people got rich, but the vast majority returned with nothing.

What really happened?

Urban II gave the Crusaders two goals, both of which would remain central to the eastern Crusades for centuries. The first was to rescue the Christians of the East. As his successor, Pope Innocent III, later wrote:

How does a man love according to divine precept his neighbor as himself when, knowing that his Christian brothers in faith and in name are held by the perfidious Muslims in strict confinement and weighed down by the yoke of heaviest servitude, he does not devote himself to the task of freeing them? ?c Is it by chance that you do not know that many thousands of Christians are bound in slavery and imprisoned by the Muslims, tortured with innumerable torments?

"Crusading," Professor Jonathan Riley-Smith has rightly argued, was understood as an "an act of love"?\in this case, the love of one's neighbor. The Crusade was seen as an errand of mercy to right a terrible wrong. As Pope Innocent III wrote to the Knights Templar, "You carry out in deeds the words of the Gospel, 'Greater love than this hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friends.'"

The second goal was the liberation of Jerusalem and the other places made holy by the life of Christ. The word crusade is modern. Medieval Crusaders saw themselves as pilgrims, performing acts of righteousness on their way to the Holy Sepulcher. The Crusade indulgence they received was canonically related to the pilgrimage indulgence. This goal was frequently described in feudal terms. When calling the Fifth Crusade in 1215, Innocent III wrote:

Consider most dear sons, consider carefully that if any temporal king was thrown out of his domain and perhaps captured, would he not, when he was restored to his pristine liberty and the time had come for dispensing justice look on his vassals as unfaithful and traitors ?c unless they had committed not only their property but also their persons to the task of freeing him? ?c And similarly will not Jesus Christ, the king of kings and lord of lords, whose servant you cannot deny being, who joined your soul to your body, who redeemed you with the Precious Blood ?c condemn you for the vice of ingratitude and the crime of infidelity if you neglect to help Him?

The re-conquest of Jerusalem, therefore, was not colonialism but an act of restoration and an open declaration of one's love of God. Medieval men knew, of course, that God had the power to restore Jerusalem Himself?\indeed, he had the power to restore the whole world to his rule. Yet as St. Bernard of Clairvaux preached, His refusal to do so was a blessing to His people:

Again I say, consider the Almighty's goodness and pay heed to His plans of mercy. He puts Himself under obligation to you, or rather feigns to do so, that He can help you to satisfy your obligations toward Himself. ?c I call blessed the generation that can seize an opportunity of such rich indulgence as this.

It is often assumed that the central goal of the Crusades was forced conversion of the Muslim world. Nothing could be further from the truth. From the perspective of medieval Christians, Muslims were the enemies of Christ and his Church. It was the Crusaders' task to defeat and defend against them. That was all. Muslims who lived in Crusader-won territories were generally allowed to retain their property and livelihood, and always their religion. Indeed, throughout the history of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, Muslim inhabitants far outnumbered the Catholics. It was not until the 13th century that the Franciscans began conversion efforts among Muslims. But these were mostly unsuccessful and finally abandoned. In any case, such efforts were by peaceful persuasion, not the threat of violence.

All apologies

The Crusades were wars, so it would be a mistake to characterize them as nothing but piety and good intentions. Like all warfare, the violence was brutal (although not as brutal as modern wars). There were mishaps, blunders, and crimes. These are usually well-remembered today. During the early days of the First Crusade in 1095, a ragtag band of Crusaders led by Count Emicho of Leiningen made its way down the Rhine, robbing and murdering all the Jews they could find. Without success, the local bishops attempted to stop the carnage. In the eyes of these warriors, the Jews, like the Muslims, were the enemies of Christ. Plundering and killing them, then, was no vice. Indeed, they believed it was a righteous deed, since the Jews' money could be used to fund the Crusade to Jerusalem. But they were wrong, and the Church strongly condemned the anti-Jewish attacks.

Fifty years later, when the Second Crusade was gearing up, St. Bernard frequently preached that the Jews were not to be persecuted:

Ask anyone who knows the Sacred Scriptures what he finds foretold of the Jews in the Psalm. "Not for their destruction do I pray," it says. The Jews are for us the living words of Scripture, for they remind us always of what our Lord suffered ?c Under Christian princes they endure a hard captivity, but "they only wait for the time of their deliverance."

Nevertheless, a fellow Cistercian monk named Radulf stirred up people against the Rhineland Jews, despite numerous letters from Bernard demanding that he stop. At last Bernard was forced to travel to Germany himself, where he caught up with Radulf, sent him back to his convent, and ended the massacres.

It is often said that the roots of the Holocaust can be seen in these medieval pogroms. That may be. But if so, those roots are far deeper and more widespread than the Crusades. Jews perished during the Crusades, but the purpose of the Crusades was not to kill Jews. Quite the contrary: Popes, bishops, and preachers made it clear that the Jews of Europe were to be left unmolested. In a modern war, we call tragic deaths like these "collateral damage." Even with smart technologies, the United States has killed far more innocents in our wars than the Crusaders ever could. But no one would seriously argue that the purpose of American wars is to kill women and children.

The failure of the Crusades

By any reckoning, the First Crusade was a long shot. There was no leader, no chain of command, no supply lines, no detailed strategy. It was simply thousands of warriors marching deep into enemy territory, committed to a common cause. Many of them died, either in battle or through disease or starvation. It was a rough campaign, one that seemed always on the brink of disaster. Yet it was miraculously successful. By 1098, the Crusaders had restored Nicaea and Antioch to Christian rule. In July 1099, they conquered Jerusalem and began to build a Christian state in Palestine. The joy in Europe was unbridled. It seemed that the tide of history, which had lifted the Muslims to such heights, was now turning.

But it was not. When we think about the Middle Ages, it is easy to view Europe in light of what it became rather than what it was. The colossus of the medieval world was Islam, not Christendom. The Crusades are interesting largely because they were an attempt to counter that trend. But in five centuries of crusading, it was only the First Crusade that significantly rolled back the military progress of Islam. It was downhill from there.

When the Crusader County of Edessa fell to the Turks and Kurds in 1144, there was an enormous groundswell of support for a new Crusade in Europe. It was led by two kings, Louis VII of France and Conrad III of Germany, and preached by St. Bernard himself. It failed miserably. Most of the Crusaders were killed along the way. Those who made it to Jerusalem only made things worse by attacking Muslim Damascus, which formerly had been a strong ally of the Christians. In the wake of such a disaster, Christians across Europe were forced to accept not only the continued growth of Muslim power but the certainty that God was punishing the West for its sins. Lay piety movements sprouted up throughout Europe, all rooted in the desire to purify Christian society so that it might be worthy of victory in the East.

Crusading in the late twelfth century, therefore, became a total war effort. Every person, no matter how weak or poor, was called to help. Warriors were asked to sacrifice their wealth and, if need be, their lives for the defense of the Christian East. On the home front, all Christians were called to support the Crusades through prayer, fasting, and alms. Yet still the Muslims grew in strength. Saladin, the great unifier, had forged the Muslim Near East into a single entity, all the while preaching jihad against the Christians. In 1187 at the Battle of Hattin, his forces wiped out the combined armies of the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem and captured the precious relic of the True Cross. Defenseless, the Christian cities began surrendering one by one, culminating in the surrender of Jerusalem on October 2. Only a tiny handful of ports held out.

The response was the Third Crusade. It was led by Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa of the German Empire, King Philip II Augustus of France, and King Richard I Lionheart of England. By any measure it was a grand affair, although not quite as grand as the Christians had hoped. The aged Frederick drowned while crossing a river on horseback, so his army returned home before reaching the Holy Land. Philip and Richard came by boat, but their incessant bickering only added to an already divisive situation on the ground in Palestine. After recapturing Acre, the king of France went home, where he busied himself carving up Richard's French holdings. The Crusade, therefore, fell into Richard's lap. A skilled warrior, gifted leader, and superb tactician, Richard led the Christian forces to victory after victory, eventually reconquering the entire coast. But Jerusalem was not on the coast, and after two abortive attempts to secure supply lines to the Holy City, Richard at last gave up. Promising to return one day, he struck a truce with Saladin that ensured peace in the region and free access to Jerusalem for unarmed pilgrims. But it was a bitter pill to swallow. The desire to restore Jerusalem to Christian rule and regain the True Cross remained intense throughout Europe.

The Crusades of the 13th century were larger, better funded, and better organized. But they too failed. The Fourth Crusade (1201-1204) ran aground when it was seduced into a web of Byzantine politics, which the Westerners never fully understood. They had made a detour to Constantinople to support an imperial claimant who promised great rewards and support for the Holy Land. Yet once he was on the throne of the Caesars, their benefactor found that he could not pay what he had promised. Thus betrayed by their Greek friends, in 1204 the Crusaders attacked, captured, and brutally sacked Constantinople, the greatest Christian city in the world. Pope Innocent III, who had previously excommunicated the entire Crusade, strongly denounced the Crusaders. But there was little else he could do. The tragic events of 1204 closed an iron door between Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox, a door that even today Pope John Paul II has been unable to reopen. It is a terrible irony that the Crusades, which were a direct result of the Catholic desire to rescue the Orthodox people, drove the two further?\and perhaps irrevocably?\apart.

The remainder of the 13th century's Crusades did little better. The Fifth Crusade (1217-1221) managed briefly to capture Damietta in Egypt, but the Muslims eventually defeated the army and reoccupied the city. St. Louis IX of France led two Crusades in his life. The first also captured Damietta, but Louis was quickly outwitted by the Egyptians and forced to abandon the city. Although Louis was in the Holy Land for several years, spending freely on defensive works, he never achieved his fondest wish: to free Jerusalem. He was a much older man in 1270 when he led another Crusade to Tunis, where he died of a disease that ravaged the camp. After St. Louis's death, the ruthless Muslim leaders, Baybars and Kalavun, waged a brutal jihad against the Christians in Palestine. By 1291, the Muslim forces had succeeded in killing or ejecting the last of the Crusaders, thus erasing the Crusader kingdom from the map. Despite numerous attempts and many more plans, Christian forces were never again able to gain a foothold in the region until the 19th century.

Europe's fight for its life

One might think that three centuries of Christian defeats would have soured Europeans on the idea of Crusade. Not at all. In one sense, they had little alternative. Muslim kingdoms were becoming more, not less, powerful in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. The Ottoman Turks conquered not only their fellow Muslims, thus further unifying Islam, but also continued to press westward, capturing Constantinople and plunging deep into Europe itself. By the 15th century, the Crusades were no longer errands of mercy for a distant people but desperate attempts of one of the last remnants of Christendom to survive. Europeans began to ponder the real possibility that Islam would finally achieve its aim of conquering the entire Christian world. One of the great best-sellers of the time, Sebastian Brant's The Ship of Fools, gave voice to this sentiment in a chapter titled "Of the Decline of the Faith":

Our faith was strong in th' Orient,
It ruled in all of Asia,
In Moorish lands and Africa.
But now for us these lands are gone
'Twould even grieve the hardest stone ?c
Four sisters of our Church you find,
They're of the patriarchic kind:
Constantinople, Alexandria,
Jerusalem, Antiochia.
But they've been forfeited and sacked
And soon the head will be attacked.

Of course, that is not what happened. But it very nearly did. In 1480, Sultan Mehmed II captured Otranto as a beachhead for his invasion of Italy. Rome was evacuated. Yet the sultan died shortly thereafter, and his plan died with him. In 1529, Suleiman the Magnificent laid siege to Vienna. If not for a run of freak rainstorms that delayed his progress and forced him to leave behind much of his artillery, it is virtually certain that the Turks would have taken the city. Germany, then, would have been at their mercy.

Yet, even while these close shaves were taking place, something else was brewing in Europe?\something unprecedented in human history. The Renaissance, born from a strange mixture of Roman values, medieval piety, and a unique respect for commerce and entrepreneurialism, had led to other movements like humanism, the Scientific Revolution, and the Age of Exploration. Even while fighting for its life, Europe was preparing to expand on a global scale. The Protestant Reformation, which rejected the papacy and the doctrine of indulgence, made Crusades unthinkable for many Europeans, thus leaving the fighting to the Catholics. In 1571, a Holy League, which was itself a Crusade, defeated the Ottoman fleet at Lepanto. Yet military victories like that remained rare. The Muslim threat was neutralized economically. As Europe grew in wealth and power, the once awesome and sophisticated Turks began to seem backward and pathetic?\no longer worth a Crusade. The "Sick Man of Europe" limped along until the 20th century, when he finally expired, leaving behind the present mess of the modern Middle East.

From the safe distance of many centuries, it is easy enough to scowl in disgust at the Crusades. Religion, after all, is nothing to fight wars over. But we should be mindful that our medieval ancestors would have been equally disgusted by our infinitely more destructive wars fought in the name of political ideologies. And yet, both the medieval and the modern soldier fight ultimately for their own world and all that makes it up. Both are willing to suffer enormous sacrifice, provided that it is in the service of something they hold dear, something greater than themselves. Whether we admire the Crusaders or not, it is a fact that the world we know today would not exist without their efforts. The ancient faith of Christianity, with its respect for women and antipathy toward slavery, not only survived but flourished. Without the Crusades, it might well have followed Zoroastrianism, another of Islam's rivals, into extinction.
 
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