Iosif Lazaridis: Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair, brown eyes, and an intermed‌iate skin tone

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Moja

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What does it mean? Does it mean that those who have blonde hair and blue eyes, ... have adopted Indo-European languages and genetically can't be considered as Indo-European?

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Farhad Jam:

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Moja said:
What does it mean? Does it mean that those who have blonde hair and blue eyes, ... have adopted Indo-European languages and genetically can't be considered as Indo-European?

View attachment 17808

Farhad Jam:

1660561367a3f6.jpg
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No, Indo-European (WSH) genetics are the highest in areas with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now, granted, while they did not display these phenotypes themselves, they are remnants from Early European Farmers which were sexually selected for during the iron age.
 
thunorr said:
No, Indo-European (WSH) genetics are the highest in areas with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now, granted, while they did not display these phenotypes themselves, they are remnants from Early European Farmers which were sexually selected for during the iron age.
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It better that we focus on new scientific studies, Iosif Lazaridis, Nick Patterson, David Anthony, David Reich, ... say CLV, not WSH, as the origin of Indo-Europeans.
 
Moja said:
What does it mean? Does it mean that those who have blonde hair and blue eyes, ... have adopted Indo-European languages and genetically can't be considered as Indo-European?

View attachment 17808

Farhad Jam:

1660561367a3f6.jpg
Click to expand...

What point are you trying to make with this thread? I've noticed that you've made other threads/posts where you liberally throw around terms like White supremacist, racist, etc.

People from Europe who live in regions where blonde hair and blue eyes predominate generally have the highest amount of Indo-European ancestry (~50%+) in the world, unlike in Iran where Indo-European-like (not fully Indo-European) ancestry ranges from (10-15%). So to answer your question, those blonde haired and blue eyed people are likely the most genetically related to Indo-Europeans, again, just to point out specifically for you, significantly moreso than Iranians.

I've noticed that whenever Indo-Europeans are brought up, there are two very vocal groups who engage in delusional propaganda and spread misinformation. These two groups being Hindu-nationalists, or supremacists if we use the terms that you like using, and Iranians who suffer from an inferiority complex. I suspect that this inferiority complex stems from the fact that today, neither of those groups phenotypically resemble and barely genetically resemble the people that brought to them their civilization/culture. I'm guessing that's also why you're trying to pass off a picture of Farhad Jam, who is a phenotypic anomaly in Iran, as what an Iranian looks like.

Why not use this picture of a general crowd in Tehran instead?
Iran_15403-1880x1254.jpg
 
Granzon said:
What point are you trying to make with this thread? I've noticed that you've made other threads/posts where you liberally throw around terms like White supremacist, racist, etc.

People from Europe who live in regions where blonde hair and blue eyes predominate generally have the highest amount of Indo-European ancestry (~50%+) in the world, unlike in Iran where Indo-European-like (not fully Indo-European) ancestry ranges from (10-15%). So to answer your question, those blonde haired and blue eyed people are likely the most genetically related to Indo-Europeans, again, just to point out specifically for you, significantly moreso than Iranians.

I've noticed that whenever Indo-Europeans are brought up, there are two very vocal groups who engage in delusional propaganda and spread misinformation. These two groups being Hindu-nationalists, or supremacists if we use the terms that you like using, and Iranians who suffer from an inferiority complex. I suspect that this inferiority complex stems from the fact that today, neither of those groups phenotypically resemble and barely genetically resemble the people that brought to them their civilization/culture. I'm guessing that's also why you're trying to pass off a picture of Farhad Jam, who is a phenotypic anomaly in Iran, as what an Iranian looks like.

Why not use this picture of a general crowd in Tehran instead?
View attachment 17820
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Those are real Indo-Europeans, all genetic studies in the recent years talk about CHG ancestry of Indo-European, so other than some Greeks and Italians, other Europeans are not Indo-European.

The selection landscape and genetic legacy of ancient Eurasians: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06705-1

Irving.jpg
 
The only Iranians are the (*surprise*) Iranian looking middle-aged ladies around the flag. The others, at least the more European looking in that picture, are apparently Russians. Stop embarassing yourself.
 
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1- We are not sure of who were the first P-Indo-Anatolians, even if a South Caucasus or peri-South Caspian place (undefined yet) could be the best answer. PIE is already another question, I think, and North Caucasus is tempting, so a place of exchanges and mixings between CHG/Iranlike people and more EHG people for the most, not without other components. The cultural imput seems stronger towards North than towards South, OK, but for language nothing is proved still. I hold on for ancient PIE/PFO (Finn-Ugric) deep origin or dense contacts with PIA. If not North the Caucasus, where if not East the Caspian? Here I'm not knowledged enough concerning the archeology of this region. It's just a personal and provisory guess.
Concerning phoenotypes, it's true that modern North and even more Northeastern Europeans are the most akin to supposed PIE people, what doesn't suppose they took their relatively lighter pigmentation from these precise mixed ancestors.
So I find very stupid arguing about this genetically reduced part of us which is pigmentation.
For other traits, the same. Culture can be passed from a type of ancestry to another one, not without changes, and in my mind PIE people were no more IA (Indo-Anatolian) people and their language already was no more the same. What doesn't exclude the part we owe to every pop having taken part in the mixingS who produced the (our) ofspring languages and cultures and even genetic heritage.
 
HereToLearn said:
The only Iranians are the (*surprise*) Iranian looking middle-aged ladies around the flag. The others, at least the more European looking in that picture, are apparently Russians. Stop embarassing yourself.
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I think you are kidding, Russians?! Let's compare Italy and Iran national football teams:

IranItaly.jpg
 
MOESAN said:
Whatever the interpretations, thanks for the pics.
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You are welcome, some people don't like it but the fact is that other than genetic similarities, Iranians and Italians have have a very similar culture too.

Exploring What Iranians and Italians Have in Common: 15 Similarities: https://www.visitouriran.com/blog/e...-and-italians-have-in-common-15-similarities/

Italian male and female dancing in traditional dress: https://mosaics.dickinson.edu/patag...male-and-female-dancing-in-traditional-dress/

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Gialni male and female dancing in traditional dress: https://www.visitiran.ir/attraction/Gilani-Dance

Gilani-Dance
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Gilani Musicians, early 1st millennium BCE: https://www.bidsquare.com/online-auctions/artemis-gallery/amlash-terracotta-seated-musicians-1212659

GilaniMusicians.jpg


Ancient Roman musicians:

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Yeah same... Why don't you just embrace your Middle Eastern heritage and stop being a Euro-wannabe? Unfortunately it's a disease that seems to be quite widespread in your area of the world.

Typical of you people to brand the Europeans "Eurocentric"/"colonialists" etc. and at the same time desperately try to establish some far-fetched common links.

Italians
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Iranians
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Moja said:
I think you are kidding, Russians?!
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Do you have some kind of cognitive impairment? Those are apparently Russians (except for the Middle Eastern/almost Pakistani-looking women with the flag), the girl even has the Russian flag painted on her cheek if ever there was need to confirm she was not Iranian.
 
HereToLearn said:
Yeah same... Why don't you just embrace your Middle Eastern heritage and stop being a Euro-wannabe? Unfortunately it's a disease that seems to be quite widespread in your area of the world.

Typical of you people to brand the Europeans "Eurocentric"/"colonialists" etc. and at the same time desperately try to establish some far-fetched common links.

Italians
View attachment 17835

Iranians
View attachment 17836
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What is the main purpose of genetic studies about Indo-Europeans? Do you want to deny all scientific studies about the cultural origin of Indo-Europeans? Do you believe Iranians are Middle Easterners, not Indo-Europeans? Do you believe real Italians are just those ones who have blonde hair?

A kindergarten in Tehran:

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Moja said:
so what?

Gilani player Jahanbakhsh vs. Italian player Donnarumma:

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Why did you only choosed the most outlier ones of both teams instead of looking at the group pictures or the crowded images from both countries?
 
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