Introduction new member (Y-DNA: J-L283)

T

telsh

Regular Member
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Location
Bucharest
Y-DNA haplogroup
J-L283>...>PH3514
mtDNA haplogroup
J1c2
Hi all,


I just wanted to introduce myself since I am a new member of this forum.


I am Romanian, born in Bucharest and I find it fascinating to learn more about my ancestry.


As far as I know all my close relatives (up until grand-grand parents) were born in what was once called Wallachia - most of them in Moroeni - Targoviste - Ploiesti - Bucharest area. Via 23andme I have learned that my Y-DNA halplogroup is J2 (M172) > J2b (M102) > J2b2 (Z1825) > J-M241 > J-L283 and my mtDNA is J1. I just don't know how to interpret all these results. I would be very grateful if you could help a bit out here. I will be very happy to share my ancestry details on specific websites dedicated to DNA studies and to deepen my DNA search - I mean going to search further via subclades. However I don't know quite how and where to start. All ideas or suggestions are welcome.

Thank you in advance!
 
telsh said:
Hi all,


I just wanted to introduce myself since I am a new member of this forum.


I am Romanian, born in Bucharest and I find it fascinating to learn more about my ancestry.


As far as I know all my close relatives (up until grand-grand parents) were born in what was once called Wallachia - most of them in Moroeni - Targoviste - Ploiesti - Bucharest area. Via 23andme I have learned that my Y-DNA halplogroup is J2 (M172) > J2b (M102) > J2b2 (Z1825) > J-M241 > J-L283 and my mtDNA is J1. I just don't know how to interpret all these results. I would be very grateful if you could help a bit out here. I will be very happy to share my ancestry details on specific websites dedicated to DNA studies and to deepen my DNA search - I mean going to search further via subclades. However I don't know quite how and where to start. All ideas or suggestions are welcome.

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...


Welcome Telsh,


from this page you can find out about the theories, the history and the spread of paternal and maternal haplogroups:


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml


If you performed the test with 23andMe you should be able to download your raw data (it's a file that shows the sequence of your genome) and load them on some online calculators like those of Gedmatch to check your autosomal and see if it's in line with the average of your population or if in your family history there are more "exotic" influences and external contributions:


https://www.gedmatch.com/login1.php
 
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Hi Stuvanè and thanks a lot for your reply.

I have managed to upload my genome on gedmatch and familytreedna.com but further than that I don't know what to do next. I believe I should purchase additional test products according to my Y-DNA? Do you have any other suggestions - other resources I might use or which tests should I get?
 
ahh 23andme, nevermind, no comment.
 
telsh said:
Hi all,


I just wanted to introduce myself since I am a new member of this forum.


I am Romanian, born in Bucharest and I find it fascinating to learn more about my ancestry.


As far as I know all my close relatives (up until grand-grand parents) were born in what was once called Wallachia - most of them in Moroeni - Targoviste - Ploiesti - Bucharest area. Via 23andme I have learned that my Y-DNA halplogroup is J2 (M172) > J2b (M102) > J2b2 (Z1825) > J-M241 > J-L283 and my mtDNA is J1. I just don't know how to interpret all these results. I would be very grateful if you could help a bit out here. I will be very happy to share my ancestry details on specific websites dedicated to DNA studies and to deepen my DNA search - I mean going to search further via subclades. However I don't know quite how and where to start. All ideas or suggestions are welcome.

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

The most knowledgeable person on J2b-L283 is Trojet. He is an admin of the J2b project at FTDNA.

From my understanding, without a Y37 or bigY test we can’t know for certain where you paternal ancestor is derived. However,J2b-L283 was found in the remains of a Proto-Illyrian in Dalmatia. It is one of the most common lineages in Albanians, especially Albanian highlanders(Ghegs).

Considering the migration of Albanians to Romania and especially Bucharest, I would say your paternal ancestor was likely one of many Orthodox Christians Albanians that migrated there.

The best way to be certain is to take that test. This way, if you have Albanian matches in recent history it would be a guarantee. If your matches with Albanians go back to classical history, then it could have been a Illyrian or Daco-Thracian that splintered off.
 
telsh said:
Hi Stuvanè and thanks a lot for your reply.

I have managed to upload my genome on gedmatch and familytreedna.com but further than that I don't know what to do next. I believe I should purchase additional test products according to my Y-DNA? Do you have any other suggestions - other resources I might use or which tests should I get?
Click to expand...


Hi Telsh.


Dibran preceded me and gave you more than useful information. It depends on how much you want to go deeper into your haplogroup's subcladic investigation. In your case you should consider yourself lucky enough, because 23andMe was quite detailed in providing you with the specific clade of J-L283 (in my case they were much less specific).
If you are very curious here you can already check how it is divided and is currently widespread


https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/J;name=J-L283


If you wanted to go deeper into a specific subclade of your paternal haplogroup you could also test yourself with the YSEQ kits, then compare the data obtained with the databases and maps provided by various sites like those of Family Tree Dna.


In any case, when these researches are generally carried out - if I were you - I would take small steps, especially because everything on our haplogroup was said and the opposite of everything, and apart from some fairly firm points (as would seem to be its archaic approximate origin in the area of ​​the Caucasus / northern Mesopotamia and with J2b successfully established mainly in the Balkan territories) the history of its dispersion is not yet linear and is probably attributable to several events that cannot always be correlated with each other.
 
Dibran said:
The most knowledgeable person on J2b-L283 is Trojet. He is an admin of the J2b project at FTDNA. ... Y37 or bigY ...
Click to expand...

Stuvanè said:
... YSEQ kits ...
Click to expand...

Hi guys,


First of all I would like to thank you for all the information and recommendations provided. I really appreciate this.


I am definitely going to go deeper into my haplogroup's subcladic investigation, but I still have to decide which way to go first.


At this point I have decided not to take the big Y, I would like first to go for one of the following 2:


- YSEQ kit for L283

- FTDNA Y37 or Y25 (don't really understand the difference here, I see that it only differs in terms of number of generations in Y25 favour).


Which one from above do you think would be the best choice in my case - given the fact that 23andme already provided me with this J2b-L283 clade. Do you think the YSEQ kit for L283 would be enough at this moment or should I go for Y37 or Y25 instead?


Thanks again and have a fine weekend!
 
telsh said:
Hi guys,
First of all I would like to thank you for all the information and recommendations provided. I really appreciate this.
I am definitely going to go deeper into my haplogroup's subcladic investigation, but I still have to decide which way to go first.
At this point I have decided not to take the big Y, I would like first to go for one of the following 2:
- YSEQ kit for L283
- FTDNA Y37 or Y25 (don't really understand the difference here, I see that it only differs in terms of number of generations in Y25 favour).
Which one from above do you think would be the best choice in my case - given the fact that 23andme already provided me with this J2b-L283 clade. Do you think the YSEQ kit for L283 would be enough at this moment or should I go for Y37 or Y25 instead?
Thanks again and have a fine weekend!
Click to expand...

Hi and congrats on your result. As already mentioned, J-L283 is ~5400 year old mutation, and it has many subsequent younger subclades. Unfortunately, 23andMe doesn't test for its subclades, except Z631 in some cases. So if you are classified as J-L283, odds are you have tested L283+ Z631- and belong somewhere in between L283 and Z631: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/

For deeper testing, Big Y-700 from FamilyTreeDNA or another NGS test, is always the best option.
Understandingly, this is out of the question for many due to the price. From the above-mentioned options, both FTDNA Y37 or YSEQ Panel would be fine. However, since you already know you are J-L283, I would suggest the J2b-M12 Panel from YSEQ which will test for pretty much all subclades you see on YFull, which to date have been discovered by BigY or other NGS tests. The YSEQ J2b-M12 Panel can be ordered by following this link: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=45234
 
Moroieni are a branch of Mocani,the Transylvanian shepherds;how come both J2b2 and E-V13(see also Martinez-Cruz) peak in Transylvania, it really makes no sense to me.



While Wallachia and Moldavia is high on I2a,the presence of this hg in Herzegovina and Dalmatia seems to indicate an early Byzantine affiliation,expansion.



https://j2-m172.info/2015/10/j2b2a1-l283-origins-by-diversity-and-subgroups-focus-jewish-lineages/


EDIT


For the very early distribution of I2a in Romania,see the Moravian Vlach lineages.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131682/
 
Trojet said:
Hi and congrats on your result. As already mentioned, J-L283 is ~5400 year old mutation, and it has many subsequent younger subclades (...) However, since you already know you are J-L283, I would suggest the J2b-M12 Panel from YSEQ which will test for pretty much all subclades you see on YFull, which to date have been discovered by BigY or other NGS tests. The YSEQ J2b-M12
Click to expand...

Hi Trojet,

Thanks a lot for your input. I have decided to go for the YSEQ J2b-M12 test.

I will update here whatever I get. I'm really curious :)

Thanks all for your support.
 
Dreptul Valah said:
Moroieni are a branch of Mocani,the Transylvanian shepherds;how come both J2b2 and E-V13(see also Martinez-Cruz) peak in Transylvania, it really makes no sense to me.

While Wallachia and Moldavia is high on I2a,the presence of this hg in Herzegovina and Dalmatia seems to indicate an early Byzantine affiliation
Click to expand...

Hi Dreptul Valah,

Actually it's Moroeni, not Moroieni. Dâmboviţa county.
 
I am also a member of maternal haplogroup J1, more specifically J1c2b, a North Sea and British Isles subclade. You could be either J1b, which was brought to Europe by Indo-European invaders, or J1c, which originated in the Balkans or northwest Anatolia and was one of the main subclades of the Neolithic Farmers before it was taken up by Indo-European invaders as well.
 
EDIT


Interesting,it seems that most of the Balkanites brought by the Phanariotes were settled/rewarded by the Habsburgs into their territories, with fiscal facilities, in the 18th c.,unfortunately the situation is presented exactly the opposite;that's one possible explanation.


The information comes exactly from their Hungarian friends.



http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/280.html
 
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Joey37 said:
I am also a member of maternal haplogroup J1, more specifically J1c2b, a North Sea and British Isles subclade. You could be either J1b, which was brought to Europe by Indo-European invaders, or J1c, which originated in the Balkans or northwest Anatolia and was one of the main subclades of the Neolithic Farmers before it was taken up by Indo-European invaders as well.
Click to expand...

My MtDNA haplogroup has been classified as J1 but my brother got J1c. And we have the same mother.
It's a bit funny because his Y-DNA haplogroup according to 23andMe was "only" J-M241, whereas mine is J-L283.
 
telsh said:
Hi Dreptul Valah,

Actually it's Moroeni, not Moroieni. Dâmboviţa county.
Click to expand...

Over at 23andMe Romania comes in 3rd place for me in Ancestry, actually ahead of Serbia which comes 4th. I don't know if this is due to 23andMe customer selection bias (more Romanians than Serbians in their overall customer base) but it is interesting, especially as Dambovita County pops up as number one for me in Romania. Yes, it is autosomal, but it's pretty interesting that both you and I are J-L283. Trojet has me predicted as J-Z631 over at FTNDA.com so I'm looking forward to what your result will be.

romanian.jpg


I am left wondering if there was a migration from Southwestern, Southern Balkans into this central portion of Romania some time in the distant past. Aromanians? I get connections both autosomally and paternally with present-day Northern Greece, parts of Macedonia and Albania.

I assume that the Moro in Moroeni refers to the colour black. Would this be correct? Black Village, or something along those lines? Moro, Morovlasi, Morlaci, Morlachs........just off of the top of my head as I don't know how old the toponym Moroeni is.
 
I have managed to upload my genome on gedmatch and familytreedna.com but further than that I don't know what to do next. I believe I should purchase additional test products according to my Y-DNA? Do you have any other suggestions - other resources I might use or which tests should I get?
 
hi, Thanks for introducing ,,, i am brittney, new member of this forum. i love to explore biology terms and also love travelling to whole world.
 
Guido Anselmi said:
Over at 23andMe (...) I assume that the Moro in Moroeni refers to the colour black. Would this be correct? Black Village, or something along those lines? Moro, Morovlasi, Morlaci, Morlachs........just off of the top of my head as I don't know how old the toponym Moroeni is.
Click to expand...


I'm also very curious about what the next test will reveal.

While as far as I know my grandfather who was born in Moroeni had no relatives of other ethnicity up until his own grandparents (at least not that he would be aware of), according to my 23andMe ancestry composition, Argeș county pops as number one for me, which is kind of surprising at this point of investigation. We'll see what the next results bring. Anyway I will post them here.

Regarding the etymology of the word Moroeni, I really have no idea, maybe a linguist could help here. Here's what I personally found:

"The patronym Moroianu derives from a nickname by which the inhabitants of the hill areas of Muntenia called the Romanian migrant shepherds from Bran. During the descent of the sheep, in late autumn, to their wintering places (in Romanian = “iernat”) in Balta Dunării, Dobrogea/Dobrudja and Bugeac/Budjak, they looked like frightening spirits to the locals (in Romanian = moroi), appearing into the light and heavy rain in the misty weather (in Romanian = “ploaie mocănească”). Derived from this nickname, the place-name Moroieni appears in the Subcarpathians, in Dâmbovița County, and the settlement was probably founded by the mentioned shepherds."


 
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