Holy Crap, Anthrogenica is closing

1. OPENING STATEMENTS

1.1. The following post expresses the consensus position of the existing administrators of Anthrogenica and follows two full weeks of reflection, deliberation and exploration of the site's viability given the immovable constraints outlined below.

1.2. This post has been reviewed in advance by all existing administrators, in addition to a select number of former administrators, who were liaised with ahead of publication, and is verified as accurate by all.

1.3. Furthermore, we are confident that all former administrators, moderators and/or other members familiar with the site's previously unpublished history, can corroborate those areas of this announcement that they are familiar with on a first-hand basis.

1.4. For brevity, sections of this post that are not site-critical are contained within "Spoilers" for ease of reading.


2. ANNOUNCEMENT SUMMARY

2.1 We deeply regret to inform the community that Anthrogenica has no other alternative but to close on Friday 17 August 2023, following over 11 years of continued activity and advocacy from our esteemed members.

2.2. We have provided our community with a concise, but complete, summary of events leading to this declaration, in the interest of transparency and expediting the internal reconciliation process within our community following this announcement.

2.3. This public statement grants our community under one month to obtain all desired information from the site before closure.


Tuesday 25 July 2023 16:30 UTC - Public announcement
Tuesday 01 August 2023 08:00 UTC - New posts and PMs by members permanently disabled
Tuesday 08 August 2023 08:00 UTC - First public reminder of forum closure date
Thursday 10 August 2023 16:00 UTC - Initiation and completion of member reimbursements
Tuesday 15th August 2023 08:00 UTC - Member login disabling
Thursday 17th August 2023 16:00 UTC - Site closure


The majority of the forum administrators announced their formal or deferred resignation by July, which is the main reason why the website is going to shut down permanently. Recently, the site was poorly moderated by a few administrators who had been too busy to deal with low-quality posts by new members. Among them, there was a developing consensus on the site that East Asians came to Asia via a northern route, contrary to genetic evidence. To avoid spreading this kind of misinformation, senior administrators may have decided to put an end to Anthrogenica.
 
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I am only curious how many AG refugees again join eupedia:) What alternative they have, The Apricity maybe?:)
 
Vallicanus said:
The Apricity is a low IQ cesspit while Anthrogenica is/was pretty woke.
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Lots of people with "tribal agendas" on Anthrogenica but there were also quite a few knowledgeable people.
 
We are fair, if people conduct themselves respectfully, they are welcome.

Despite being treated unfairly myself on AG, and banned.
But I will have zero tolerance for any agenda driven nonsense.
 
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Anfänger said:
To be honest AG users were very good at determining precise subclades for Y-DNA.
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There's certainly people of value there, I have noticed from my time spent.

Nevertheless, now that we live in a world with aDNA from southern Italy from the Neolithic, I am happy to tell them I was right. :lol2:
 
I like good boards in which new scientific and archaeological material being regularly posted and discussed. Therefore its a pity if Anthrogenica is gone, because with the past experience it seems to be unlikely that all good posters from there will switch, even if a lot of them might eventually.
 
bigsnake49 said:
The more samples we have the more the agendas will disappear. Then the last agenda standing will be where did the Albanian language come from?Just kidding....
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Unironically though, once it is settled, it will be a new era
 
Johane Derite said:
Unironically though, once it is settled, it will be a new era
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It is more difficult to settle though, because the archaeological, linguistical and historical source material seems to be less unequivoval than for say Germanics, Celts and Slavs - and even those are not that clear cut for their ealy phases, yet those early phases are millenia before the Albanian case. The patrilineages, usually a sure bet for many Indoeuropean pastoralist and agro-pastoralist people, are also not as unequivocal than for many other people. Like it is much harder to be sure which haplogroup was the central group, around the others grouped, since we have three big patrilinear blocks (J-L283, E-V13, R-Z2103) which do not, necessarily, overlapped each other in the earlier periods as they do in modern Albanians.
So it will be really, even with more material, one of the last topics to be solved in a satisfying manner and is on a similar level of complexity as the Pre-Proto-Indoeuropean debate imho. So its not all the Albanians fault, its the material which is pretty complex and simply not unequivocal too.
 
Riverman said:
It is more difficult to settle though, because the archaeological, linguistical and historical source material seems to be less unequivoval than for say Germanics, Celts and Slavs - and even those are not that clear cut for their ealy phases, yet those early phases are millenia before the Albanian case. The patrilineages, usually a sure bet for many Indoeuropean pastoralist and agro-pastoralist people, are also not as unequivocal than for many other people. Like it is much harder to be sure which haplogroup was the central group, around the others grouped, since we have three big patrilinear blocks (J-L283, E-V13, R-Z2103) which do not, necessarily, overlapped each other in the earlier periods as they do in modern Albanians.
So it will be really, even with more material, one of the last topics to be solved in a satisfying manner and is on a similar level of complexity as the Pre-Proto-Indoeuropean debate imho. So its not all the Albanians fault, its the material which is pretty complex and simply not unequivocal too.
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I think it will get settled within 10 years. Considering just the last 10 years how astronomically the question has progressed. We didnt know j2b-l283, E-V13, etc, even existed. As we get more autosomal, paternal, samples, we will have an even clearer picture. Likewise, linguistics will also keep advancing, use of AI assistance here may also push things forward in unforeseen ways, i.e. hyper accurate reconstructions, models. Even if it isnt fully settled, it will be such an entirely different debate compared to where we are now.
 
Johane Derite said:
I think it will get settled within 10 years. Considering just the last 10 years how astronomically the question has progressed. We didnt know j2b-l283, E-V13, etc, even existed. As we get more autosomal, paternal, samples, we will have an even clearer picture. Likewise, linguistics will also keep advancing, use of AI assistance here may also push things forward in unforeseen ways, i.e. hyper accurate reconstructions, models. Even if it isnt fully settled, it will be such an entirely different debate compared to where we are now.
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Once we have (adept) AI-driven tools for ADMIXTOOLS2 or equivalent, we will be able to prompt it to perform academic quality analysis.
 
Well, we really don't have very good early medieval/medieval sources such as census from the Byzantines. Whereas the Romans and the Ottomans kept very good tax/land records, the Byzantines did not or those tax/land records were lost. There were a lot of population movements in the Byzantine era beyond the groups in the migration period. Between the wars, the plagues, the raids etc there were a lot of voluntary and involuntary movements.
 
ThirdTerm said:
The majority of the forum administrators announced their formal or deferred resignation by July, which is the main reason why the website is going to shut down permanently. Recently, the site was poorly moderated by a few administrators who had been too busy to deal with low-quality posts by new members. Among them, there was a developing consensus on the site that East Asians came to Asia via a northern route, contrary to genetic evidence. To avoid spreading this kind of misinformation, senior administrators may have decided to put an end to Anthrogenica.
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This is so stupid. Not many of you doubting Anthogenica had a schizophrenic banning issue. They are closing the site for such a trivial statement/supposedly misinformation.
 
Now that I think about it the reason for closing the site is probably not the real one.
 
ihype02 said:
This is so stupid. Not many of you doubting Anthogenica had a schizophrenic banning issue. They are closing the site for such a trivial statement/supposedly misinformation.
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Indeed. They permanently banned me for calling out an Anti-Albanian troll who posted regularly on the Apricity and tried claiming that the autosomal shift of some North-Macedonians toward Kosovar Albanians/North Albanians was because they are genetically influenced from North Macedonians rather than the other way around. Never lifted the ban either. Reason for ban "trolling" for calling out a troll lol.

There is no rhyme or reason to half of they decision making process.
 
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Jovialis said:
I was banned for references to academic papers.
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Sounds about right lol. Someone was banned for the same when discussing aDNA for R1a-M458. The moderators are very hard nosed and dead set on certain narratives, regardless of what academic papers say. If academic papers do not agree with their opinions they consider the paper poor. Ironically most of these guys don't even have the credentials the individuals involved in the study have, yet, somehow their opinions hold more weight.
 
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