G25 Deep Time Upper Paleolithic

qh777

qh777

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Ethnic group
English, Scottish, Irish, French, German, Belgian
Y-DNA haplogroup
J2/J-M67/J2a1a1a2b
mtDNA haplogroup
H/ H1/H1ao
I'm attempting to make a list comprising of the ancestral components of later neolithic populations and for modern people today.
This list is a work in progress.

1728499408261.png

1728499439263.png

1728499509557.png


There is another Basal Eurasian that I have and It will affect my results. In the list its at the very bottom and you all can pick which one is best.

1728499650134.png

1728499723611.png
 

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Considering the age of these individuals, I'd expect the distance values are not going to be as low as modeling with more recent populations. I'll mention that I was surprised to see a distance of 0.1387 to Dzudzuana. To me that seems quite close from an individual that lived 26,000 years ago.
 
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qh777 said:
Considering the age of these individuals, I'd expect the distance values are not going to be as low as modeling with more recent populations. I'll mention that I was surprised to see a distance of 0.1387 to Dzudzuana. To me that seems quite close from an individual that lived 26,000 years ago.
Click to expand...
A Dzudzuana-like component made up 85% of the ancestry of the ANF, it makes sense.
Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
55.2 UP_West_Eurasian
29.2 ANE
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
42.0 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya
29.2 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2
13.2 UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949

Also, it's important to remember that the Dzudzuana had Basal Eurasian ancestry. (30%)
Natufians were 44%(+/- 8%) Basal Eurasian and 56% (+/- 8%) Unknown HG
Basal Eurasian ancestry is severely underinflated judging by this.
 
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thunorr said:
A Dzudzuana-like component made up 85% of the ancestry of the ANF, it makes sense.
Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
55.2 UP_West_Eurasian
29.2 ANE
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
42.0 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya
29.2 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2
13.2 UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949

Also, it's important to remember that the Dzudzuana had Basal Eurasian ancestry. (30%)
Natufians were 44%(+/- 8%) Basal Eurasian and 56% (+/- 8%) Unknown HG
Basal Eurasian ancestry is severely underinflated judging by this.
Click to expand...
Looking at the eupedia map of ANE admixture, it seems like ANE is always overinflated with G25. Perhaps it's because the ANE were half eastern eurasian, resulting in a similar signal and then the calculator absorbing it?
 

​
Distance to: PT_G25_Ancestry_simulated_g25_scaled
0.10188055 26kya:S2949
0.20604298 UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Kostenki14:Kostenki14_38kya
0.20816235 UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir_34kya2
0.21340394 UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir_34kya4
0.21589751 UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir_34kya1
0.21677298 UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir_34kya3
0.24711728 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ116-1:Q116-1_28kya
0.28345447 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya
0.34668046 ANE:RUS_MA1:MA1
0.34739020 UP_Early_Eurasian:Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG:UstIshim_snpAD.DG_48kya
0.36250943 UP_Eastasian_Mongolia_Salkhit_UP:salkhit1_34kya
0.41023596 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
0.45849154 UP_Eastasian_China_Tianyuan:Tianyuan_40kya
0.67944616 AASI:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:IHG_North_Gonur2-SimIHG_North_Gonur2-Sim
0.75007100 UP_SSA:Malawi_Hora_LSA_15500BP:I19528
0.79949311 Ancestral.North.African:2
0.80093478 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2
0.88879479 Ancestral.North.African:1
1.22365853 Basal_Eurasian_simulated
 
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thunorr said:
A Dzudzuana-like component made up 85% of the ancestry of the ANF, it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Dzudzuana is ancestral to Natufians as well (modeled at 60-70%) along with Basal Eurasians. But I'm not sure what the consensus is on what the most likely admixture is. I've heard them being modeled as 50% Basal Eurasian and 50% WHG
 
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thunorr said:
A Dzudzuana-like component made up 85% of the ancestry of the ANF, it makes sense.
Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
55.2 UP_West_Eurasian
29.2 ANE
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 7.7063% / 0.07706329
42.0 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya
29.2 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
15.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2
13.2 UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949

Also, it's important to remember that the Dzudzuana had Basal Eurasian ancestry. (30%)
Natufians were 44%(+/- 8%) Basal Eurasian and 56% (+/- 8%) Unknown HG
Basal Eurasian ancestry is severely underinflated judging by this.
Click to expand...
If you use the other Basal Eurasian G25 coordinates it will reduce ANE and probably assign something like 80-85% Dzudzuana like my results.
 
qh777: Thanks for the coordinates:

xez0gUH.png


With the other Basal G25 coordinates, I got to 94% Dzudzuana like in my results. There was that paper
Paleolithic DNA from the Caucasus reveals core of West Eurasian ancestry by Lazaridis et al 2018 that has never been published. Does anyone know what happened to that paper and asked Lazaridis on his twitter (I don't have it) what the status is?
 
qh777 said:
If you use the other Basal Eurasian G25 coordinates it will reduce ANE and probably assign something like 80-85% Dzudzuana like my results.
Click to expand...
Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 11.7323% / 0.11732250
83.2 UP_West_Eurasian
16.8 ANE

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 11.7323% / 0.11732250
77.0 UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949
16.8 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
6.2 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya

It seems to have improved, with the exception that Basal Eurasian dissapears
 
thunorr said:
Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 11.7323% / 0.11732250
83.2 UP_West_Eurasian
16.8 ANE

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 11.7323% / 0.11732250
77.0 UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949
16.8 ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3
6.2 UP_West_Eurasian:BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2_35kya

It seems to have improved, with the exception that Basal Eurasian dissapears
Click to expand...
As far as I know there hasn’t been any ancient DNA extracted from any remains that can be identified as basal Eurasian. To this point they are all simulated coordinates based on guesses. As you stated in an earlier post the Dzudzuana population has basal Eurasian admixture which would explain in this run you do not get basal Eurasian in your results. And the same story applies for myself. It’s my hope that we can get ancient DNA from some of these mysterious populations like basal eurasians, Ancestral North Africans, AASIs and others to get a better picture.
 
UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949,0.062603,0.099522,-0.009428,-0.002261,0.029852,-0.017012,0.001175,-0.001846,0.03211,0.02606,0.007632,-0.011989,0.001635,0.012799,0.000271,-0.003182,-0.01343,0.004687,-0.007416,0.003377,0.026453,0.007172,-0.01479,-0.029281,-0.00012
Basal_Eurasian_simulated,0.075,0.375,-0.46085,-0.85,-0.205,-0.41,-0.11175,-0.1551,0.1948,-0.035,0.1534,-0.055,0.2264,0.0495,-0.1036,-0.08,-0.03945,0.0095,0,0.0185,-0.185,0.0495,0.1187,0.395,-0.0595
ANE:RUS_MA1:MA1,0.078538,-0.025388,0.039598,0.186049,-0.068936,0.04518,-0.048412,-0.056998,-0.019839,-0.069432,0.029879,-0.009591,0.015312,-0.045553,0.014251,0.021082,-0.007693,0,-0.003645,0.000625,-0.027327,0.002844,0.011339,-0.008314,-0.001437
UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Kostenki14:Kostenki14_38kya,0.035285,0.015233,-0.010182,0.063954,0.017849,-0.00251,-0.004465,-0.007846,0.032519,0.007654,0.006658,-0.005545,0.004014,-0.016239,0.013436,0.024794,0.01004,-0.003421,-0.00729,0.015132,0.020713,0.000371,-0.005916,-0.051212,-0.004071
AASI:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:IHG_North_Gonur2-SimIHG_North_Gonur2-Sim,0.01469145,-0.28169161,-0.28474983,0.267541105,-0.0739601,0.11730675,-0.00578555,0.025174255,0.197366475,0.147477385,-0.015784495,0.020305475,-0.01343384,0.029863875,-0.040955225,-0.07134423,0.01711305,-0.01263137,-0.00682243,0.023356785,-0.0030176,0.015205075,0.002044945,0.03104139,-0.03796555
UP_Eastasian_China_Tianyuan:Tianyuan_40kya,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
UP_Eastasian_Mongolia_Salkhit_UP:salkhit1_34kya,-0.001138,-0.169593,-0.039221,0.061693,0.017234,-0.01506,0.017391,-0.023999,0.035178,-0.004009,0.000325,-0.003897,0.007284,-0.004679,-0.004479,-0.001326,0.007302,0.006968,0.014455,0.015632,0.001123,-0.001484,-0.007148,-0.00735,-0.017843
UP_SSA:Malawi_Hora_LSA_15500BP:I19528,-0.575945,0.050776,0.001886,0.025517,-0.012925,-0.001116,0.190594,-0.134533,0.04929,-0.014943,-0.00065,-0.026227,-0.022894,0.005643,0.00285,-0.019225,0.026338,0.116934,-0.027151,-0.010755,-0.015972,-0.003586,0.004437,-0.007471,0.002515
Ancestral_North_African:1,-0.493537,-0.003656,-0.078366,-0.088502,-0.015511,-0.07028,-0.135319,0.034983,0.263345,-0.072639,0.035823,-0.072805,0.170841,-0.093308,0.184471,-0.068894,-0.033665,-0.129425,-0.292878,0.079238,-0.061516,-0.254403,0.149475,-0.018244,0.038534
Ancestral_North_African:2,-0.385,0.055,-0.12,-0.255,-0.035,-0.13,-0.145,0.02,0.22,0.003499,0.045,-0.0625,0.155,-0.085,0.135,-0.08,0,-0.105,-0.275,0.0389938,-0.085,-0.205,0.185,0.055,0.0215
ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3,0.093335,-0.01828,0.083344,0.231592,-0.091402,0.042949,-0.063688,-0.078228,-0.035383,-0.096221,0.047417,-0.0105,0.023637,-0.074454,0.020358,0.02254,-0.012908,0.003801,-0.003394,0.000625,-0.03706,0.015209,0.013927,0.009278,-0.005149
Basal-Eurasian_scaled2,0.33470261,0.5592589,-0.04017549,-0.50502326,0.08995616,-0.14117036,0.00378444,-0.01580531,-0.04496913,0.25977882,-0.00271621,0.08254944,-0.14033062,0.02034602,-0.19229843,-0.08045069,0.10758379,-0.01537226,0.08636059,-0.1116382,-0.13510462,0.00319261,0.02649926,0.14359341,-0.02411549


I simplified the list which creates a decent fit for myself (considering the age I've heard anything under 0.15 is acceptable) and other populations.

1728827791243.png

1728827922557.png

1728828071990.png

1728828290954.png
 
qh777 said:
UP_West_Eurasian:GEO_Dzudzuana_UP_26kya:S2949,0.062603,0.099522,-0.009428,-0.002261,0.029852,-0.017012,0.001175,-0.001846,0.03211,0.02606,0.007632,-0.011989,0.001635,0.012799,0.000271,-0.003182,-0.01343,0.004687,-0.007416,0.003377,0.026453,0.007172,-0.01479,-0.029281,-0.00012
Basal_Eurasian_simulated,0.075,0.375,-0.46085,-0.85,-0.205,-0.41,-0.11175,-0.1551,0.1948,-0.035,0.1534,-0.055,0.2264,0.0495,-0.1036,-0.08,-0.03945,0.0095,0,0.0185,-0.185,0.0495,0.1187,0.395,-0.0595
ANE:RUS_MA1:MA1,0.078538,-0.025388,0.039598,0.186049,-0.068936,0.04518,-0.048412,-0.056998,-0.019839,-0.069432,0.029879,-0.009591,0.015312,-0.045553,0.014251,0.021082,-0.007693,0,-0.003645,0.000625,-0.027327,0.002844,0.011339,-0.008314,-0.001437
UP_West_Eurasian:RUS_Kostenki14:Kostenki14_38kya,0.035285,0.015233,-0.010182,0.063954,0.017849,-0.00251,-0.004465,-0.007846,0.032519,0.007654,0.006658,-0.005545,0.004014,-0.016239,0.013436,0.024794,0.01004,-0.003421,-0.00729,0.015132,0.020713,0.000371,-0.005916,-0.051212,-0.004071
AASI:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:Indian_Hunter_Gatherer:IHG_North_Gonur2-SimIHG_North_Gonur2-Sim,0.01469145,-0.28169161,-0.28474983,0.267541105,-0.0739601,0.11730675,-0.00578555,0.025174255,0.197366475,0.147477385,-0.015784495,0.020305475,-0.01343384,0.029863875,-0.040955225,-0.07134423,0.01711305,-0.01263137,-0.00682243,0.023356785,-0.0030176,0.015205075,0.002044945,0.03104139,-0.03796555
UP_Eastasian_China_Tianyuan:Tianyuan_40kya,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
UP_Eastasian_Mongolia_Salkhit_UP:salkhit1_34kya,-0.001138,-0.169593,-0.039221,0.061693,0.017234,-0.01506,0.017391,-0.023999,0.035178,-0.004009,0.000325,-0.003897,0.007284,-0.004679,-0.004479,-0.001326,0.007302,0.006968,0.014455,0.015632,0.001123,-0.001484,-0.007148,-0.00735,-0.017843
UP_SSA:Malawi_Hora_LSA_15500BP:I19528,-0.575945,0.050776,0.001886,0.025517,-0.012925,-0.001116,0.190594,-0.134533,0.04929,-0.014943,-0.00065,-0.026227,-0.022894,0.005643,0.00285,-0.019225,0.026338,0.116934,-0.027151,-0.010755,-0.015972,-0.003586,0.004437,-0.007471,0.002515
Ancestral_North_African:1,-0.493537,-0.003656,-0.078366,-0.088502,-0.015511,-0.07028,-0.135319,0.034983,0.263345,-0.072639,0.035823,-0.072805,0.170841,-0.093308,0.184471,-0.068894,-0.033665,-0.129425,-0.292878,0.079238,-0.061516,-0.254403,0.149475,-0.018244,0.038534
Ancestral_North_African:2,-0.385,0.055,-0.12,-0.255,-0.035,-0.13,-0.145,0.02,0.22,0.003499,0.045,-0.0625,0.155,-0.085,0.135,-0.08,0,-0.105,-0.275,0.0389938,-0.085,-0.205,0.185,0.055,0.0215
ANE:RUS_AfontovaGora3_17kya:AfontovaGora3,0.093335,-0.01828,0.083344,0.231592,-0.091402,0.042949,-0.063688,-0.078228,-0.035383,-0.096221,0.047417,-0.0105,0.023637,-0.074454,0.020358,0.02254,-0.012908,0.003801,-0.003394,0.000625,-0.03706,0.015209,0.013927,0.009278,-0.005149
Basal-Eurasian_scaled2,0.33470261,0.5592589,-0.04017549,-0.50502326,0.08995616,-0.14117036,0.00378444,-0.01580531,-0.04496913,0.25977882,-0.00271621,0.08254944,-0.14033062,0.02034602,-0.19229843,-0.08045069,0.10758379,-0.01537226,0.08636059,-0.1116382,-0.13510462,0.00319261,0.02649926,0.14359341,-0.02411549


I simplified the list which creates a decent fit for myself (considering the age I've heard anything under 0.15 is acceptable) and other populations.

View attachment 16775
View attachment 16776
View attachment 16777
View attachment 16778
Click to expand...

Target: thunorr_scaled
Distance: 9.9675% / 0.09967533
61.4 UP_West_Eurasian
30.0 ANE
8.6 Basal-Eurasian_scaled2
 
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