Do you prefer Y-DNA maps with or withour country borders ?

Do you prefer Y-DNA maps with or withour country borders ?

  • Without borders

    Votes: 6 20.0%

  • With borders

    Votes: 22 73.3%

  • Either way

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Total voters
    30
Maciamo

Maciamo

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I have originally made all my Y-DNA frequency maps without showing the political borders of modern countries. I only added borders for the maps of haplogroup I, R1 and EGJT. I could easily add borders though. As I prefer to have only one version of each map online, I would like to ask first if I should keep the maps as they are (borderless) or add the borders. Please vote at the poll.
 
I prefer borders, so you can see cleary for each country which levels they have. etc
 
Personally; i have no troubles reading the borderless maps;
maybe (important) Rivers would be a good feature;

But since its not only Eupedia members looking and using them; I think borders might be helpful since not everybody is well versed with European geography; but than again Rivers would be a good feature instead of national-borders
- especially in the context of ancient cultures and territories; to understand it in a broader context not a narrow nationalistic one;
 
I agree with Wilhelm. Whilst I like the maps without borders, I think for study purposes, it is much easier to see the distribution within set areas "at a glance" with the borders.
 
I like the borders because it makes the maps easier to read. Side note... while I lock horns with you from time to time on the whole R vs. I thing, I must say these maps are incredibly useful. In fact I think your maps will be referred to hundreds of years in the future kind of like how we examine the earliest sea-faring maps of yesteryear. Our future generations will laugh at how much we've gotten wrong, but also marvel at what we've been able to get right.
 
If the maps had national borders (making genetic compilation in regions MUCH more difficult) then maciamo is god, basically
 
Borders in Europe and no borders outside the European continent especially the fake borders in the Middle East. As a Kurd I don't recognise artificial borders that divide Kurdistan! But this site is about Europe, so I voted for borders! I predict different borders in the Middle East with 10 years...
 
Look at that, a Kurd....I wonder why I'm the one with the Y-DNA T marker from the Middle East lolll
 
As the vast majority has voted in favour, I have added borders to all the maps (except R1b which is at a different format for which I don't have the borders).
 
Maciamo said:
I have originally made all my Y-DNA frequency maps without showing the political borders of modern countries. I only added borders for the maps of haplogroup I, R1 and EGJT. I could easily add borders though. As I prefer to have only one version of each map online, I would like to ask first if I should keep the maps as they are (borderless) or add the borders. Please vote at the poll.
Click to expand...

I believe you can do both easily and give people a choice. Just have 2 blank maps, make one a transparency with borders and do an overlay. I did that for Wikipedia in several instances.
 
It is useful with borders as it gives you an idea of whether genetic barriers equate with cultural or political barriers, for example. However it is also nice to see the genetic aspect without being influenced by national boundaries.
 
With borders...thank you Maciamo..all forget Albania because it is 1 small country .., please see time after time albanian results..in Ftdna we are fast all R1b1a2a1.. ..
 
Albania said:
With borders...thank you Maciamo..all forget Albania because it is 1 small country .., please see time after time albanian results..in Ftdna we are fast all R1b1a2a1.. ..
Click to expand...
It is because u are only 6 people. Albanians have more E-V13 then R1b-HT 35 and also do not forget J2b2. I2a is also big in Tosk especially:smile:
 
Yaan said:
It is because u are only 6 people. Albanians have more E-V13 then R1b-HT 35 and also do not forget J2b2. I2a is also big in Tosk especially:smile:
Click to expand...

strange how albanians have high J2-M102 and very low J2-M410
 
Well it is not that strange I think. J2b2 is together with E-V13 and R1b-HT 35 while J2a is with different things. J2b1 is ultra low in Albanians and everywhere, is is seen a bit in Slavs and sometimes in India. J2b2 is Balkan and also Volga Tatars and Italy is observed. J2a is not high in the Balkan anyways, we Bulgarians have 2.4% J2a-M530 and 1% J-M67 the other subclades are really low. Albanians also have both of this groups maybe about the same J-M530 and a bit more J-M67
 
Albanians have mostly J2b2-M241. For example Geg Albanians in the Kosovo have 16,7%, in Upper Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic): 13,5%. J2a is much less, for example in Albanians in Macedonia (Gegs) founded 2,7%. But for me is big surprise that Arbereshe (Albanians who emigrated in Calabria and Apulia) almost do not even have J haplogroup.
 
Garrick said:
Albanians have mostly J2b2-M241. For example Geg Albanians in the Kosovo have 16,7%, in Upper Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic): 13,5%. J2a is much less, for example in Albanians in Macedonia (Gegs) founded 2,7%.
Click to expand...
Yes but we do not have samples. For example first Karachanak found 1.2 % G2a in 126 Bulgarians and then in her new research with good sample of 808 she found 4.8 %. The problem with research on Balkan is that it is not enough, bellow 100 is a joke, bellow 500 is not a good picture .
On Albanians there is one sample of 106 people but they only checked for E1b1b , one sample of 64 people(not enough), one sample of 55 people(not enough), one sample of 30 people(not enough) one sample of 114(the best so far, yet too little) and one sample of 51(not enough). When we combine them(without) the E sample it is 314 and this is kinda good, but then they did not really checked for subgroups in all of this samples and we can not be sure if some of the people are not the same.
There is a big sample on Persians and there is also data for other people out of 55 tested Albanians 3.64 are JM67, 1. 82 are J2-M97, so if this is the same sample of 55 Albanians of Batagglia 2008, which finds 20% of J2 in Albanians, this will mean that 5.46% are J2a(but we do not know about other subtype of J2a) and the rest are J2b2 :smile:​
 
Yaan said:
Yes but we do not have samples. For example first Karachanak found 1.2 % G2a in 126 Bulgarians and then in her new research with good sample of 808 she found 4.8 %. The problem with research on Balkan is that it is not enough, bellow 100 is a joke, bellow 500 is not a good picture .
On Albanians there is one sample of 106 people but they only checked for E1b1b , one sample of 64 people(not enough), one sample of 55 people(not enough), one sample of 30 people(not enough) one sample of 114(the best so far, yet too little) and one sample of 51(not enough). When we combine them(without) the E sample it is 314 and this is kinda good, but then they did not really checked for subgroups in all of this samples and we can not be sure if some of the people are not the same.
There is a big sample on Persians and there is also data for other people out of 55 tested Albanians 3.64 are JM67, 1. 82 are J2-M92, so if this is the same sample of 55 Albanians of Batagglia 2008, which finds 20% of J2 in Albanians, this will mean that 5.46% are J2a(but we do not know about other subtype of J2a) and the rest are J2b2 :smile:​
Click to expand...
Out of 52 tested Albanians from Italy:
3.85% have J-M530
5.75% have J-M92
7.69% have J-M67
this is 17.26% J2a
 
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