Distribution of I1 in Italy (Boattini et al.)

The Lombards were tied neither to R1b P-312 nor R1b-u106 but probably to I1. I1 in italy peaks in friulia (20%) Trentino alto (20%) and Molise (15%). 18% of men from Vicenza Veneto are hg I1.
 
They may have had a minor u-106 substratum; u106 is present in a maximum of 2-3% of north-italian lineages. I1 is found at 5%.
 
let's wait more subregional data - even at regional level, there were different histories - I suppose R-U106 as a whole is stronger in some places of N-Italy (I think germanic tribes had a strpnger impact in N-E Italy than in central N-Italy whereauthoctones, Ligurians and Celts was denser
 
Hi,

I tested positive for M253! And it goes on like this: Z140 > Y6231 > Y7277 > Y10890*
With the particularity of having marker DYS426=10
The latest ancestor I could track born around 1770, was from Molise, Campobasso!
 
I have just found out my grandfather - maternal side ydna
I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
Can anyone tell me about this marker....origins or other
.
.
other positive SNPs
CTS10349+,CTS242+,CTS2496+,CTS6009+,CTS6009+,F3750+,FB1791+,FGC42+,L119+,L1249+,L81+,M212+,M47+,M5379+,M5449+,P14+,P40+,PF1451+,PF1636+,PF2704+,PF6503+,S27128+,S27131+,S27190+,S27238+,S27247+,S27445+S27475+,S27531+,S27562+,S27574+,S27605+,S27644+,S27653+,S27774+,V63+
 
Sile said:
I have just found out my grandfather - maternal side ydna
I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
Can anyone tell me about this marker....origins or other
.
.
other positive SNPs
CTS10349+,CTS242+,CTS2496+,CTS6009+,CTS6009+,F3750+,FB1791+,FGC42+,L119+,L1249+,L81+,M212+,M47+,M5379+,M5449+,P14+,P40+,PF1451+,PF1636+,PF2704+,PF6503+,S27128+,S27131+,S27190+,S27238+,S27247+,S27445+S27475+,S27531+,S27562+,S27574+,S27605+,S27644+,S27653+,S27774+,V63+
Click to expand...

What is your source? That looks like a basic call for plain I1 without any further detail.
 
Sile said:
I have just found out my grandfather - maternal side ydna
I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
Can anyone tell me about this marker....origins or other
.
.
other positive SNPs
CTS10349+,CTS242+,CTS2496+,CTS6009+,CTS6009+,F3750+,FB1791+,FGC42+,L119+,L1249+,L81+,M212+,M47+,M5379+,M5449+,P14+,P40+,PF1451+,PF1636+,PF2704+,PF6503+,S27128+,S27131+,S27190+,S27238+,S27247+,S27445+S27475+,S27531+,S27562+,S27574+,S27605+,S27644+,S27653+,S27774+,V63+
Click to expand...
further clarification of my grandmother brother line
I1d - L22
CTS6009
.
yfull = Y4734
I-Y4734Y4735 * Y4736 * Y4737+22 SNPsformed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 1100 ybp

I-Y4734*CTS6009 * YFC094309 * YFC085690+10 SNPs
 
Sile said:
further clarification of my grandmother brother line
I1d - L22
CTS6009
.
yfull = Y4734
I-Y4734Y4735 * Y4736 * Y4737+22 SNPsformed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 1100 ybp

I-Y4734*CTS6009 * YFC094309 * YFC085690+10 SNPs
Click to expand...

Looks very Scandinavian, almost exclusively so. What geographic location did your great uncle come from? Straya?
 
I1a3_Young said:
That is interesting. Do you have STR results? I checked Yfull and the FTDNA I1 project and couldn't find another sample anywhere close to Italy. Your paternal line could have been a rare addition to whatever party moved to northern Italy.
Click to expand...
not yet....I will try to get them ............do you need them for something?
.
.
Do you mean , you could not find any I1 or L22
this person is close to Merlengo
N15793 Rugo, ca. 1500, Tramonti di Sotto, Friuli-VG Italy
.
.
BTW..its not my paternal line......but the paternal line of my grandmother .who is noted Maria in the link
 
Sile said:
not yet....I will try to get them ............do you need them for something?
.
.
Do you mean , you could not find any I1 or L22
this person is close to Merlengo
N15793 Rugo, ca. 1500, Tramonti di Sotto, Friuli-VG Italy
.
.
BTW..its not my paternal line......but the paternal line of my grandmother .who is noted Maria in the link
Click to expand...

I was only looking at the known locations of SNP "Y4734"

Usually the Gothic I1 YDNA is found in Poland, the Balkans, Italy, Iberia. Y4734 is so far noted as Scandinavia and England (going to guess Viking spread). No reports of it in Germany, Netherlands, or other continental countries.

Perhaps your grandfather's line was a transplant between 1000 and 1500 AD for some reason. Or, it could have been a more unique marker compared to the rest of the Ostrogothic YDNA that ended up in Italy.
 
I1a3_Young said:
I was only looking at the known locations of SNP "Y4734"

Usually the Gothic I1 YDNA is found in Poland, the Balkans, Italy, Iberia. Y4734 is so far noted as Scandinavia and England (going to guess Viking spread). No reports of it in Germany, Netherlands, or other continental countries.

Perhaps your grandfather's line was a transplant between 1000 and 1500 AD for some reason. Or, it could have been a more unique marker compared to the rest of the Ostrogothic YDNA that ended up in Italy.
Click to expand...

The ostrogoths arrived in italy before the lombards and stayed over 200 years with their capital being Ravenna ...not far from venice today.
 
I1a3_Young said:
That is interesting. Do you have STR results? I checked Yfull and the FTDNA I1 project and couldn't find another sample anywhere close to Italy. Your paternal line could have been a rare addition to whatever party moved to northern Italy.
Click to expand...

i found out over the W/E the STR ( i need to visit her to confirm)

13 23 14 10 14-14 11 14 12 12 11 29

so, it should be Il- P109 Y4734
 
Sile said:
i found out over the W/E the STR ( i need to visit her to confirm)

13 23 14 10 14-14 11 14 12 12 11 29

so, it should be Il- P109 Y4734
Click to expand...

That's not enough STRs to get good matches for relations. I will stick to the highest chance of being a more rare Ostrogothic Y line.
 
I1a3_Young said:
That's not enough STRs to get good matches for relations. I will stick to the highest chance of being a more rare Ostrogothic Y line.
Click to expand...

There is only one "close" match I found ........a person living in Marche italy with surname Zianni
Zianni in the old and current venetian language is the same as Giovanni in Italian ( english John )

I do agree with you that it is not enough
 
marcellus said:
Hi,

I tested positive for M253! And it goes on like this: Z140 > Y6231 > Y7277 > Y10890*
With the particularity of having marker DYS426=10
The latest ancestor I could track born around 1770, was from Molise, Campobasso!
Click to expand...

I'm also: I1-Z60>Z140>Z141>FGC22406>Y7279>Y10890>A1994

With DYS426=10 which is pretty rare in this area of the Z140+ branch.

I've been paired with 3 other folks who are within this or deeper subclades, all from Sicily.

As far as paternal line, I'm stuck in the VA, USA 1783. I'm currently testing for A1922 which has a Hungarian lineage. So I'm looking for a back door through migration out of Sicily to Hungary then to Switzerland to semi-confirm my probable lineage. It looks like the closest of the I-Y10890 STR matches might be 16-21 generations back which would put the separation about 400-600ybp.

LMK if I'm on the wrong path.
 
whirly said:
I'm also: I1-Z60>Z140>Z141>FGC22406>Y7279>Y10890>A1994

With DYS426=10 which is pretty rare in this area of the Z140+ branch.

I've been paired with 3 other folks who are within this or deeper subclades, all from Sicily.

As far as paternal line, I'm stuck in the VA, USA 1783. I'm currently testing for A1922 which has a Hungarian lineage. So I'm looking for a back door through migration out of Sicily to Hungary then to Switzerland to semi-confirm my probable lineage. It looks like the closest of the I-Y10890 STR matches might be 16-21 generations back which would put the separation about 400-600ybp.

LMK if I'm on the wrong path.
Click to expand...

Are you ordering single SNPs? What company are you testing with?
 
I was tested by FTDNA for Y10890, A1994 and A1922. Y10890 was ordered first and came back positive. I ordered the A1994 and A1922 from FTDNA after getting the Y10890 results. But that was a month ago and there is still another month to go before they say they can provide the results. I subsequently tested with YSEQ, on a suggestion from the admin of the I-Z140 Project, for A1994 for which I have already tested positive and A1974 which is one of the SNP's for HG-A1922 and am waiting on the results for that one. YSEQ is much faster and less expensive, if you only need a couple of SNP's, than FTDNA, even with having to do the cheek swab again via international mail.

I'm still in the mirror house here but decided to forgo the shotgun approach (BIG Y) and ask for pointers. It seems to have worked out well for me so far. Now all I have to do is find more folks with my HG who are not in Italy. Not that I'm adverse to the Italians, I grew up as a WASP in an Italian neighborhood and have lots of friends there, but my documented paper trail is not pointing to Sicily unless there was an Italian migration into the Americas prior to 1780. It's a long shot but if you don't go down the road you'll never know where it leads.
 
Northern Adriatic said:
I may be slightly off-topic but maybe you could help me with something.

23andme results regarding my haplogroup were a bit surprising for me (I-Z58).

The ancestry on my paternal line should really be in central-northern Adriatic Italy (Romagna/Marche), vs maternal line which is pure Venetian.
I wanted to understand better where the haplogroup may come from. Could you suggest me the best way to move forward with this (happy to do more detailed tests which could trace the subclades from I-Z58 and therefore, possibly, the movements of my I1 ancestor)?

Anecdotally, while the 23andme autosomal dna pushes the Italian side a lot (90+) with low percentages from Balkans&Greece and Scandinavia, on the various Gedmatch calculators the results come out with a much stronger East Med number than expected (also looking at the phenotypes of my family, if that makes sense) lower than expected Atlantic, West Med and North Sea, higher than expected Baltic and West Asian.

Close generally to Tuscany, Greece Thessaly and Albania (or to Szolad37, 3.8 distance) . Slightly confusing, as I should not have significant southern Italian heritage (except for a quarter in Abruzzo), but could have something to do with the Venetian side too (since there is a lot of Venice lagoon heritage there and for centuries there have been any type of exchanges between Venetians, Ottomans, Greeks, Albanians, South Slavs) and in general with the Adriatic being historically land of various mixes.

To make it short, I didn't expect neither a scandinavian/west germanic haplogroup nor such a strong east med part of me at the autosomal level.

Eager to hear your suggestions on how to move forward on the haplogroup digging!
Click to expand...
Have you tested after Aug 2017, i.e., have you tested 23andMe v5?

The fact 23andMe categorizes you some way doesn't "necessarily" mean the Raw Data doesn't include positive results for downstream SNPs. Perhaps yes, perhaps no.

If you tested the v5, you could search for the following SNPs (you may browse the rs number or search for the position at Raw Data):

[TABLE="width: 435"]
[TR]
[TD]SNP[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Group[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]RS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hg19 pos[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Anc[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Der[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z58[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs772609696[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9847423[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z59[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs757424414[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16802360[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z61[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs752865900[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19329927[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z60[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs773711447[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18234588[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z140[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs768549242[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17863355[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z141[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs758870120[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7530813[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z2535[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs765711588[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22142382[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]YSC0000261[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a1a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs751841691[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14976484[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z2538[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a1b[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs778999339[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22844178[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]F2642.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs376636841[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17936279[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y5497[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i701072[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17253349[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y6900[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a3a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i706588[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23030253[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y7140[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a3a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i702558[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8448432[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y7477[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a3a1a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i705732[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13818342[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y6885[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1a3a2a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i703032[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16267366[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y3657[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d1a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs755882976[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23885777[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y5448[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d1a1a1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i704541[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8757595[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y5568[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d1a1a2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i705743[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23963569[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]L573[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d1b[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i704699[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16020280[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]L1248[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i703630[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5274925[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]M219[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d2a1a[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs2032669[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15436915[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]L803[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2a1a1d2a1c[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]i705100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17599534[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z139[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2b[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs777599897[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21288655[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z138.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]I1a2b[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]rs746300057[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15711340[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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