Determining the ethnic origins of my paternal ancestor

[hramsa]

Is it possible to figure out which ethnic group my paternal ancestor belonged to based on my Y-DNA haplogroup? It is downstream of I1c1a on ISOGG (I know the more recent mutations but I don’t want to post them for privacy reasons).

My surname is quite rare and there is a theory that it derives from a town in north-eastern France, arriving in England with the Normans or the Flemish. The surname is most common in Northamptonshire, Buckinghamshire, and Oxfordshire.

 

[I1a3_Young]

Are you referring to the most recent ISOGG tree or and older version used by sites like the Morley Predictor?

What type of test did you have, and with what company?

It takes a very very detailed position on the SNP tree to get personal. I highly doubt it would give away anything.

 

[hramsa]

I am referring to the most recent ISSOG tree.

I did the I1 Superclade Panel test from YSEQ.

 

[I1a3_Young]

I will check for you if you PM the terminal SNP details. If I can't figure it out, I can point you to the appropriate I1 expert.

I also started with a YSEQ pack and am still waiting on BigY from FTDNA.

Based on the SNP provided, it has a most recent common ancestor of 3960 years ago (or so). That is not specific enough to determine much.

https://yfull.com/tree/I-S2315/

Does that match your result? I used the 2018 ISOGG tree and found the location on Yfull. You can see the wide distribution there: England, France, Germany, Denmark, Poland. Curiously no Sweden.

 

[spruithean]

Unfortunately even Eupedia's own Haplogroup I1 page is sparse on the details for I-Z17925 and the downstream clades.

View attachment 10131

It simply labels I-Z17925 as "North Alpine". There doesn't seem to be a lot of information (so far) on the non-DF29 members of I1.

 

[villandra]

Z17925 is Germano-Celtic

Y17954 and downstream clades are an evolving story.

I don't know about other testing services. Check at Family Tree DNA, as they could well have more helpful SNP testing for that branch of I1 by now.

Haplogroup I1 was born on or near the North Polish Plain, and then most of it went to Scandinavia and had a big founder effect. 99% of I1 men have DF29 and the others have Z17954/ A8100. It has two main branches, Z131, which also went to Scandinavia, and Z17925, which headed south into Germany, crossed to the Rhine delta region, and then migrated along the Rhine and its main tributaries, along the coast of France, and across to eastern England and Scotland, and the coast of Wales. It clearly followed the main trade routes during the Bronze Age, and the attraction in western England was tin. They may have continued moving in Celtic times. Most places where they lived southern Germany, France, England and Scotland were Celtic at some point, those along the Rhine lived in the Celtic center when it was Celtic. One group seems to have moved down the Rhone on a major trade route used by the people of central Europe and the Rhineland from Bell Beaker through Celtic times. Same people, evolved through a stage of cultures.

Most people in this clade belong to its major sub branches. Knowing the sub branch might pin down its ethnicity more closely, might not.

Unfortunately even Eupedia's own Haplogroup I1 page is sparse on the details for I-Z17925 and the downstream clades.

View attachment 10131

It simply labels I-Z17925 as "North Alpine". There doesn't seem to be a lot of information (so far) on the non-DF29 members of I1.

 

[hramsa]

Z17925 is Germano-Celtic

Y17954 and downstream clades are an evolving story.

I don't know about other testing services. Check at Family Tree DNA, as they could well have more helpful SNP testing for that branch of I1 by now.

Haplogroup I1 was born on or near the North Polish Plain, and then most of it went to Scandinavia and had a big founder effect. 99% of I1 men have DF29 and the others have Z17954/ A8100. It has two main branches, Z131, which also went to Scandinavia, and Z17925, which headed south into Germany, crossed to the Rhine delta region, and then migrated along the Rhine and its main tributaries, along the coast of France, and across to eastern England and Scotland, and the coast of Wales. It clearly followed the main trade routes during the Bronze Age, and the attraction in western England was tin. They may have continued moving in Celtic times. Most places where they lived southern Germany, France, England and Scotland were Celtic at some point, those along the Rhine lived in the Celtic center when it was Celtic. One group seems to have moved down the Rhone on a major trade route used by the people of central Europe and the Rhineland from Bell Beaker through Celtic times. Same people, evolved through a stage of cultures.

Most people in this clade belong to its major sub branches. Knowing the sub branch might pin down its ethnicity more closely, might not.

My final haplogroup is I1-DF111. All known downstream branches have been confirmed negative.

Results summary:
Z58 T-
Z2336 A-
DF29 A-
M253 T+
Z17937 T+
A9724 G-
S2320 T+
S2315 A+
DF111 T+
A8086 G-

I1-DF111 is equivalent to I1c1a1a~ on the current ISOGG tree.
YFull tree path: I1 > I-Z17954 > I-Z17943 > I-S2315 > I-S2320 > I-S2308 .

Is I-Z17943 equivalent to Z17925?

 

[Chlodovechus]

My final haplogroup is I1-DF111. All known downstream branches have been confirmed negative.

Results summary:
Z58 T-
Z2336 A-
DF29 A-
M253 T+
Z17937 T+
A9724 G-
S2320 T+
S2315 A+
DF111 T+
A8086 G-

I1-DF111 is equivalent to I1c1a1a~ on the current ISOGG tree.
YFull tree path: I1 > I-Z17954 > I-Z17943 > I-S2315 > I-S2320 > I-S2308 .

Is I-Z17943 equivalent to Z17925?

Yes. In FTDNA I-Z17943 and I-Z179925 are snp's in haplogroup I-S2304.

I-M253 > I-Z17954 > I-FGC47136 > I-S2304

I-S2308 path in FTDNA

I-M253 > I-Z17954 > I-FGC47136 > I-S2304 > I-Z17942 > I-Z17928 > I-Z17926 > I-Z17924 > I-S2308

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