Hi, long-time lurker but this is my first post on Eupedia. I hope that it is okay for me to post in this forum (I couldn't create a new thread in Anthropology & Ethnography, but I looked at some of the posts in this forum and it seemed like it could be appropriate for me to post here instead).
I've been reading a lot about Armenian and Near Eastern/eastern Mediterranean history lately. It seem to me that there is a growing consensus (or at least a significant minority) of scholars who are rejecting the Balkan origin of Armenians (i.e Armenians descend from Phrygians or a related tribe from the Balkans/Thrace/Macedonia) and instead argue that Armenians have been present in modern Armenia and Turkey since at the latest 1500 BCE. I'm referring to research by scholars like Eric P. Hamp, Robert I. Kim, and of course Thomas Gamkrelidze and Vyacheslav V. Ivanov, among others. According to Hamp, the proto-Armenians and proto-Greeks split off from one another in Georgia. Armen Petrosyan and Hrach Martirosyan have suggested that the proto-Armenians were the Etuini of northern Armenia, who were mentioned in Urartian texts. It also seems that there is growing evidence (or at least speculation) that the MBA Trialeti-Vanadzor culture of southern Georgia/northern Armenia/NE Turkey and whoever built the Nerkin Naver and Verin Naver grave complexes just outside of Yerevan were Indo-Europeans. So this seems to shift the locus of the earliest Armenians from the west to the near-north.
However, I was recently reading a paper by Archi and research by Kroonen and Damgaard, where they argues that the EBA city-state of Armi/Arman/Armani (Armanum?) had an Indo-European-speaking population, which was contemporaneous with Yamnaya culture. I had read before that Armi was believed to be the earliest recorded Indo-European name, but according to this research, Armian personal names, recorded by neighbors, were of Indo-European origins...potentially some form of early Hittites or maybe a pre-split Anatolian Indo-European language. Some have placed this city in Syria, but Archi argues that it was located near modern Samsat, Turkey--a city that was, up until the last century, populated by Armenians. Obviously the name Armi and its alternate forms sounds very much like Armenia. Also, one of the recorded Armian Indo-European personal names is Arra-ti. Ar/Ara has significance in ancient, pre-Christian Armenian religion as a sun-god (it's often believed that the name "Armenia" derives from this). -Ti meant "god" in Proto-Armenian (compare with dios, diety, etc).
Interestingly, the city of Armi was flourishing around the same time that the legendary Armenian hero, Aram, was supposed to have had some battle.
According to David Reich, the pre-Proto Indo-Europeans (Indo-Hittites) were partially from the Armenia region and the modern population most similar to them are contemporary Armenians.
I am aware that Steppe genes appear in Middle and Late Bronze Age Armenian DNA (but isn't present in EBA or modern Armenians, at least in a significant percentage). Following the Steppe theory, it would make sense that these people were a Yamnaya-derived population who brought their Indo-European, Proto-Armenian language to Armenia around 4000 years ago. But what if these people weren't Armenians but Scythians, Cimmerians, Phrygians, or another Indo-European group? What if Armenians spoke a post-Pre Proto Indo-European language that broke off and developed in situ as the (Anatolian-less) Proto-Indo Europeans moved north to Ukraine and Anatolians moved west? This could account for A) possible Armenian etymologies for, or at least relationships with, Armani/Arman and Arra-ti B) lack of Steppe ancestry in modern Armenians (where did the Steppe people who introduced these genes and not mix in with native populations go?) C) this could possibly explain the Hittite sun-goddess cult center Arinna (again, Ar being associated with solar deities), the Hattian/Hittite god Estan/Istanu and Armenian "Astu" (again, star/sun--this seems to be an Indo-European root, which means it was borrowed into Hattian and not borrowed from Hattian) d) this could also explain the difficulty in placing Armenian--is it closest to Greek? Ancient Macedonian? Indo-Iranian? Balto-Slavic? Celtic? D) it could also account for the early contact between proto-Indo-European and proto-Kartvelian. Kartvelians languages are believed to come from modern Turkey, not modern Georgia, which would suggest that contact was made prior to reaching the Pontic Steppes E) Also, signs of long contact between Armenian and Kartvelian languages.
Is this possible? Is there any reason to think that Armenian actually is Steppe-derived and didn't develop in situ? (I know that what I'm suggesting is basically the Armenian theory, but mixed with the Indo-Hittite theory). Is there a reason that Armani is considered to be related to Anatolian languages and not Armenian?
I've been reading a lot about Armenian and Near Eastern/eastern Mediterranean history lately. It seem to me that there is a growing consensus (or at least a significant minority) of scholars who are rejecting the Balkan origin of Armenians (i.e Armenians descend from Phrygians or a related tribe from the Balkans/Thrace/Macedonia) and instead argue that Armenians have been present in modern Armenia and Turkey since at the latest 1500 BCE. I'm referring to research by scholars like Eric P. Hamp, Robert I. Kim, and of course Thomas Gamkrelidze and Vyacheslav V. Ivanov, among others. According to Hamp, the proto-Armenians and proto-Greeks split off from one another in Georgia. Armen Petrosyan and Hrach Martirosyan have suggested that the proto-Armenians were the Etuini of northern Armenia, who were mentioned in Urartian texts. It also seems that there is growing evidence (or at least speculation) that the MBA Trialeti-Vanadzor culture of southern Georgia/northern Armenia/NE Turkey and whoever built the Nerkin Naver and Verin Naver grave complexes just outside of Yerevan were Indo-Europeans. So this seems to shift the locus of the earliest Armenians from the west to the near-north.
However, I was recently reading a paper by Archi and research by Kroonen and Damgaard, where they argues that the EBA city-state of Armi/Arman/Armani (Armanum?) had an Indo-European-speaking population, which was contemporaneous with Yamnaya culture. I had read before that Armi was believed to be the earliest recorded Indo-European name, but according to this research, Armian personal names, recorded by neighbors, were of Indo-European origins...potentially some form of early Hittites or maybe a pre-split Anatolian Indo-European language. Some have placed this city in Syria, but Archi argues that it was located near modern Samsat, Turkey--a city that was, up until the last century, populated by Armenians. Obviously the name Armi and its alternate forms sounds very much like Armenia. Also, one of the recorded Armian Indo-European personal names is Arra-ti. Ar/Ara has significance in ancient, pre-Christian Armenian religion as a sun-god (it's often believed that the name "Armenia" derives from this). -Ti meant "god" in Proto-Armenian (compare with dios, diety, etc).
Interestingly, the city of Armi was flourishing around the same time that the legendary Armenian hero, Aram, was supposed to have had some battle.
According to David Reich, the pre-Proto Indo-Europeans (Indo-Hittites) were partially from the Armenia region and the modern population most similar to them are contemporary Armenians.
I am aware that Steppe genes appear in Middle and Late Bronze Age Armenian DNA (but isn't present in EBA or modern Armenians, at least in a significant percentage). Following the Steppe theory, it would make sense that these people were a Yamnaya-derived population who brought their Indo-European, Proto-Armenian language to Armenia around 4000 years ago. But what if these people weren't Armenians but Scythians, Cimmerians, Phrygians, or another Indo-European group? What if Armenians spoke a post-Pre Proto Indo-European language that broke off and developed in situ as the (Anatolian-less) Proto-Indo Europeans moved north to Ukraine and Anatolians moved west? This could account for A) possible Armenian etymologies for, or at least relationships with, Armani/Arman and Arra-ti B) lack of Steppe ancestry in modern Armenians (where did the Steppe people who introduced these genes and not mix in with native populations go?) C) this could possibly explain the Hittite sun-goddess cult center Arinna (again, Ar being associated with solar deities), the Hattian/Hittite god Estan/Istanu and Armenian "Astu" (again, star/sun--this seems to be an Indo-European root, which means it was borrowed into Hattian and not borrowed from Hattian) d) this could also explain the difficulty in placing Armenian--is it closest to Greek? Ancient Macedonian? Indo-Iranian? Balto-Slavic? Celtic? D) it could also account for the early contact between proto-Indo-European and proto-Kartvelian. Kartvelians languages are believed to come from modern Turkey, not modern Georgia, which would suggest that contact was made prior to reaching the Pontic Steppes E) Also, signs of long contact between Armenian and Kartvelian languages.
Is this possible? Is there any reason to think that Armenian actually is Steppe-derived and didn't develop in situ? (I know that what I'm suggesting is basically the Armenian theory, but mixed with the Indo-Hittite theory). Is there a reason that Armani is considered to be related to Anatolian languages and not Armenian?