Are indians closer to europeans or to asians???

J

Javen

Regular Member
Messages
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Points
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Ethnic group
Western Visayan
Y-DNA haplogroup
O-F1275
mtDNA haplogroup
E1a1a1
Where would you place them?
 
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Rajput_Madhya_Pradesh[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03259065[/TD]
[TD]Brahmin_Gujarat_Bardai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04526441[/TD]
[TD]Punjabi_Hindu_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.11743593[/TD]
[TD]Pulaya_Kerala[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.11942333[/TD]
[TD]Bengali_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.12310298[/TD]
[TD]Pashtun_Afghanistan_Paktia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15139343[/TD]
[TD]Tajik_Kulob[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15723290[/TD]
[TD]Roma_Balkans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.20498512[/TD]
[TD]Iranian_Fars[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.22180961[/TD]
[TD]Uygur[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.23801793[/TD]
[TD]Turkish_Rumeli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.24181142[/TD]
[TD]Maori[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26234386[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Ararat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27228236[/TD]
[TD]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27331945[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Ryazan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27392794[/TD]
[TD]Romanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27936379[/TD]
[TD]Ukrainian_Dnipro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28000068[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28063756[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28101372[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28144112[/TD]
[TD]Norwegian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28209679[/TD]
[TD]Swedish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28239811[/TD]
[TD]German[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28316917[/TD]
[TD]English[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28356944[/TD]
[TD]Welsh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28406643[/TD]
[TD]Danish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28433459[/TD]
[TD]French_Paris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28552645[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Smolensk[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28658318[/TD]
[TD]Polish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28811460[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.29224643[/TD]
[TD]Kazakh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.29836453[/TD]
[TD]Egyptian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.30289083[/TD]
[TD]SaudiA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.32892716[/TD]
[TD]BedouinB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.37487135[/TD]
[TD]Nepali_Tamang_Simigaon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.39203689[/TD]
[TD]Mongolian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.41585071[/TD]
[TD]Thai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.44921569[/TD]
[TD]Tibetan_Shannan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49394245[/TD]
[TD]Japanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49437454[/TD]
[TD]Dai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49770786[/TD]
[TD]Han_Shanghai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49886793[/TD]
[TD]Han_Sichuan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.50364408[/TD]
[TD]Korean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.50371619[/TD]
[TD]Han_Hubei[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.56883625[/TD]
[TD]Masai[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Gujarati[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.05832978[/TD]
[TD]Pulaya_Kerala[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.07235566[/TD]
[TD]Bengali_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.07548485[/TD]
[TD]Brahmin_Gujarat_Bardai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.08485364[/TD]
[TD]Punjabi_Hindu_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.17113098[/TD]
[TD]Pashtun_Afghanistan_Paktia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.20029786[/TD]
[TD]Roma_Balkans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.20080992[/TD]
[TD]Tajik_Kulob[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.23681285[/TD]
[TD]Uygur[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.24947588[/TD]
[TD]Iranian_Fars[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26639978[/TD]
[TD]Maori[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.28664608[/TD]
[TD]Turkish_Rumeli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.30205505[/TD]
[TD]Kazakh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.30576764[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Ararat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.31357627[/TD]
[TD]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.32496154[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Ryazan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.32512739[/TD]
[TD]Romanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.32800584[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.32882541[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33123907[/TD]
[TD]Ukrainian_Dnipro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33148816[/TD]
[TD]Egyptian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33636133[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33636282[/TD]
[TD]SaudiA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33692501[/TD]
[TD]German[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33714959[/TD]
[TD]Norwegian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33723983[/TD]
[TD]Swedish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33745087[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Smolensk[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33824394[/TD]
[TD]French_Paris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33908604[/TD]
[TD]English[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33910674[/TD]
[TD]Polish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33920335[/TD]
[TD]Welsh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33937115[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.33971068[/TD]
[TD]Danish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.35953781[/TD]
[TD]BedouinB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.36081068[/TD]
[TD]Nepali_Tamang_Simigaon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.39142762[/TD]
[TD]Mongolian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.40374731[/TD]
[TD]Thai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.43794459[/TD]
[TD]Tibetan_Shannan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.48303190[/TD]
[TD]Dai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.48402115[/TD]
[TD]Japanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.48764873[/TD]
[TD]Han_Shanghai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.48845671[/TD]
[TD]Han_Sichuan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49328772[/TD]
[TD]Han_Hubei[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.49382094[/TD]
[TD]Korean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.57607588[/TD]
[TD]Masai[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Gujar_Punjab[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03003045[/TD]
[TD]Punjabi_Hindu_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04913549[/TD]
[TD]Brahmin_Gujarat_Bardai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.08079459[/TD]
[TD]Pashtun_Afghanistan_Paktia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.11917549[/TD]
[TD]Tajik_Kulob[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.13511312[/TD]
[TD]Roma_Balkans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15201716[/TD]
[TD]Pulaya_Kerala[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15985090[/TD]
[TD]Bengali_India[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.16322866[/TD]
[TD]Iranian_Fars[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.21277243[/TD]
[TD]Turkish_Rumeli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.22536736[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Ararat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.22740806[/TD]
[TD]Uygur[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.23792551[/TD]
[TD]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.25074264[/TD]
[TD]Maori[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.25273775[/TD]
[TD]Romanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.25382300[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.25440199[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.25781319[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Ryazan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26316134[/TD]
[TD]Ukrainian_Dnipro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26635835[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26638084[/TD]
[TD]German[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26839433[/TD]
[TD]French_Paris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26850701[/TD]
[TD]Norwegian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26910483[/TD]
[TD]Swedish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26915228[/TD]
[TD]Welsh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.26947204[/TD]
[TD]English[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27020421[/TD]
[TD]Danish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27041827[/TD]
[TD]Polish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27064682[/TD]
[TD]Russian_Smolensk[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27120214[/TD]
[TD]Egyptian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27145326[/TD]
[TD]SaudiA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.27229780[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.29771728[/TD]
[TD]BedouinB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.30262723[/TD]
[TD]Kazakh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.39644767[/TD]
[TD]Nepali_Tamang_Simigaon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.40692361[/TD]
[TD]Mongolian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.43621747[/TD]
[TD]Thai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.46856047[/TD]
[TD]Tibetan_Shannan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.51299839[/TD]
[TD]Dai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.51358569[/TD]
[TD]Japanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.51508848[/TD]
[TD]Han_Shanghai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.51739513[/TD]
[TD]Han_Sichuan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.52248868[/TD]
[TD]Han_Hubei[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.52252326[/TD]
[TD]Korean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.56492631[/TD]
[TD]Masai[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Attachments

Here is mine in comparison
People in apricity called my ethnic group as southern indian

Distance to:Javen_scaled
0.08855002Dai
0.10315553Thai
0.15091468Han_Hubei
0.15164287Han_Sichuan
0.17534176Han_Shanghai
0.18714991Japanese
0.19109047Korean
0.22176341Nepali_Tamang_Simigaon
0.22336044Tibetan_Shannan
0.27760765Mongolian
0.31428945Kazakh
0.33331918Maori
0.33976726Uygur
0.42033889Bengali_India
0.45152987Pulaya_Kerala
0.48812318Punjabi_Hindu_India
0.49145033Brahmin_Gujarat_Bardai
0.50137137Tajik_Kulob
0.52345507Pashtun_Afghanistan_Paktia
0.52829391Roma_Balkans
0.55380547Turkish_Rumeli
0.56064224Iranian_Fars
0.58583750Russian_Ryazan
0.58948046Egyptian
0.59025078Ukrainian_Dnipro
 
What was ASI? Does it have east asian affinities? I imagine it was largely related to ongee, but with genetic drift?
 
Viramund said:
What was ASI? Does it have east asian affinities? I imagine it was largely related to ongee, but with genetic drift?
Click to expand...
Ancestral Southern indian
 
They right question would be which Indians to which Asians. Indian is a subcontinent with many people and "Asians" is not very specific as well.
If comparing North Indians with East Asians, the North Indians are closer to Europeans than the East Asians. But there are tribes and people in India, for which the same can't be said. And there are Asian people which are closer to Indians than CJK people are.
 
Riverman said:
They right question would be which Indians to which Asians. Indian is a subcontinent with many people and "Asians" is not very specific as well.
If comparing North Indians with East Asians, the North Indians are closer to Europeans than the East Asians. But there are tribes and people in India, for which the same can't be said. And there are Asian people which are closer to Indians than CJK people are.
Click to expand...
Ok compared to east asians
 
I made a custom PCA with a selection of ethnicities available at G25 and you can clearly see the wide range:

India-PCA.jpg


Genetically the Parsi, Pashtun, Sindhi etc. are the most European-like, while tribal people like the Gond are already a bit closer to Australo-Melanesians and East Asians, yet still rather in between the two poles. The latter can be attributed to the mentioned Ancestral South Indian generalised ancestry.
There are of course more East Asian shifted people in India, but those belong, usually, to East/South East Asian ethnolinguistic groups as well (like Tibeto-Burman speakers).

You can see that even rather ASI-shifted people like the Tamils are still closer to West Eurasians, especially ancient Iranian-like ancestries, than to East Asians. That shouldn't wonder, because even the pre-Aryan Indus Valley people had lots of Iranian/West Eurasian ancestry.

The PCA shows also nicely that the West Eurasian ancestry in Indians is between Iranian and Yamnaya/steppe, with leaning a bit more towards the former than the latter.
 
Last edited:
My list I put together in 5 min has limitations. For example I used only North Indians as the target. The list I made does show that North Indians at least are closer to Europeans than to east Asians (Han Chinese, Mongolians, Japanese, Koreans, the Dai of Southern China and Thai). The one exception I see is the Uygur people. Geographically they are near Mongolians but are closer than the nearest European sample in the list. My guess for the closeness to West Eurasians is due to the Yamnaya Steppe and possibly Anatolia Neolithic, and Iran Neolithic admixture to the Ancestral South Indian.
 
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