. Double post
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Why do native Iron Age Balkanites plot over modern Italians?
Your y dna line has nothing to do with Balkans or old Europe, that's for sure, but mine was found in both Thracians and proto Bulgarians.
Maciamo's "Italian_Greeks_(n=2)", which is a combination of R437 and R850 is a very good proxy for Aegean_IA, especially from the Greeks found in Campania, who plot between them.
R1 + Aegean_IA for Italy works both historically, and modeling:
how the Semitic mixture affects (very visible with including south italy and Greece in you profile)and accidentally puts you in an area next to the Thracians is pure coincidence. I am just 100% east balkans, nothing from Italy nothing from greece ( I am local with the typical for locals components today).
If we mix Eastern European and Japanese we might get Kazakhstan autosomal for example,if we mix mid east and north Europe we might get Balkans or Italy,Anatolia or whatever, depends on autosomal profile.So you can rather have ancestry that mimic similarity with Balkan people and not that you descent from these people but you're descendant of people with similar autosomal DNA.For the same reason Balkan man that is autosomal Italian does not make him Italian.And you're wrong if anyone in the world has to do with Balkan Iron age or BA inhabitants that would again be the modern inhabitants,since they did not jumped collectively out of the Balkans.
Jovialis
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My preferences mean nothing.
The point is, Balkanites in the Iron Age were similar to Italians, and now they are not today, because of Northeastern European Ancestry. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Also, R1 and Aegean_IA are a good fit, as I have demonstrated. Both of those ancestries are in Italy, and are consistent with history.
Do you not read, not understand English? Or perhaps you are misrepresenting what I am saying on purpose?
Jovialis
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Actually my Y-line does come from the Balkans in the Early Bronze Age, not that it even matters that much, since it is such a small part of the bigger picture.
Jovialis
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Read the Olalde paper, I didn't make up the model that shows that Italians plot with Iron Age Balkans.
The reason is because they used to be the same kind of stock genetic profile, before the middle ages. The point is, the people in the Balkans have changed from it.
Jovialis
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Maciamo's "Italian_Greeks_(n=2)", which is a combination of R437 and R850 is a very good proxy for Aegean_IA, especially from the Greeks found in Campania, who plot between them.
R1 + Aegean_IA for Italy works both historically, and modeling:
At Milian.M, does this look like something non-consistent with history and genetics? As I said in the first post, R1 (which is similar to Croatia_IA/BA) mixed with Aegean_IA, they were both in Italy. The Balkans used to have Northern Italian-like people, who mixed with Aegeans in the south. They don't exist anymore in the Balkans because of invasions in the middle ages.
You have more to do with the Kuline Cluster, stop pretending like your people started in the Iron Age. Your ancestry came into existence when the Balkans was augmented by the Slavs in the middle ages.
Jovialis
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The only thing visible in this post is that you have a low-IQ.
Don't think I don't know who you are either, because you are not that slick.
Jovialis
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Archetype0ne, and yourself, from what I remember off the top of my head.
Jovialis
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Also, my proposed model is even better for Italy, despite the fact that Balkans_IA is composed of similar sources:
R1 (Croatia_IA/BA-like) + Aegean_IA
Both of them existed in Italy in the Iron Age.
R1 (Croatia_IA/BA-like) + Aegean_IA
Both of them existed in Italy in the Iron Age.
Jovialis
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No one is furious at people who point out Sardinians are what many mainland Italians looked like before later augmentation. I find it strange some people are when it comes to the Balkans being similar to Italians before augmentation.
This IMO is more accurate.
[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.8677% / 0.01867691
[/TH]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]41.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]37.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ukrainian[/TD]
[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Serbian
Distance: 1.1909% / 0.01190940
[/TH]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]56.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Polish[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.8677% / 0.01867691
[/TH]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]41.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]37.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ukrainian[/TD]
[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Serbian
Distance: 1.1909% / 0.01190940
[/TH]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]56.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Polish[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
Jovialis
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Albanians certainly do have a closer affinity to Bulgarian_IA than many others in the Balkans, about as much as Northern Greeks.
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Are you really not aware that Jovialis didn't say anything that would contradict this?
Many of my highest matches are to Balkan Early and Middle Bronze Age people. People north of me on the peninsula are even closer. It of course doesn't mean I'm descended from them. I'm descended from people who are a lot like them.
Maybe try reading the posts again.
Angela
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It's not historically plausible. Modern Tuscans didn't go to Albania or Serbia. It's also true, however, that Albanians are more "native" than Croatians, Serbs, Romanians etc.
I've been saying that since the old dna-forums days, not that the Albanians ever give me credit for stopping the t-rolling against them calling them Turkish transplants.
In fact, everything I ever predicted about the Balkans has been proven by ancient dna, even if the percentages leave something to be desired.
Sorry but aren't you the one always saying Albanians are not of Illyrian stock? Mainly due to BA Croatia western PCA.
I don't think I have ever said anything against that paper. In fact I think it's a great one, just wish they had shown more IA samples, but they will probably appear in future ones.
I was using Tuscans as a source for native Balkanites. Some late antiquity Roman samples overlap with Tuscans.
Jovialis
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Blablabla is the Romanian tr0ll I'm sure. I'm not going to go through the exhaustive motions of refuting his claims of Myceneans being semtic. Honestly, I wonder if this person ate lead-paint chips as a child.
torzio
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my main matches from MTA ...removed the AD noted ones
1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 4.903 - R1
Top 100 % match vs all users
7. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.808 - I3313
Top 98 % match vs all users
10. Scythian Southern Moldova
290 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.904 - scy197b
Top 97 % match vs all users
13. Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.09 - I7043
Top 98 % match vs all users
17. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.08 - I3313B
Top 96 % match vs all users
18. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.11 - I3313C
Top 96 % match vs all users
1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 4.903 - R1
Top 100 % match vs all users
7. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.808 - I3313
Top 98 % match vs all users
10. Scythian Southern Moldova
290 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.904 - scy197b
Top 97 % match vs all users
13. Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.09 - I7043
Top 98 % match vs all users
17. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.08 - I3313B
Top 96 % match vs all users
18. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.11 - I3313C
Top 96 % match vs all users