Poland: how is it getting rich

[Tomenable]

 

[Yetos]

Tome

yes soon will be rich enough,

it was expected years ago to be done,
the Ukraine case stop it for some years.
as also the immigrant/refuggee policy of Visengrand

but do not expect to play primary role,
it is a quided and planed will.

 

[Maciamo]

Nice summary of the economic growth of Poland. The country has hardly any public debt, a very good education system, low income taxes and exports a higher percentage of its GDP than Germany.

 

[LABERIA]

Huntington had predicted in his book, "The Clash of the Civilizations" that the two emerging powers would be Poland and Turkey.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

I am a big fan of Poland! And I wish Poland charge ahead in high income countries territory.. But at the moment I do not share the enthusiasm of Poland becoming the next Germany! Or next Italy or Spain! I don,t know of any Polish home growing industry that will lead Poland to become Germany. Foreign investment alone do not lead to high income territory!
All Eastern Europe has significantly charged ahead economically. Romania is very close behind Poland.Poland has been more privileged. BE has invested more money, free movement of people is given Poland since 1990. The number of Polish immigrants became problem in France, through the expression of "polish plumber" and its still a problem, become problem in England etc..
The only country that has actually charge ahead is Turkey. They have significantly improved the education, through constantly sending large parts in the west.
Sorry to have a different opinion! Respect for Poles!

 

[Taranis]

Poland as an eventual high-income country is very plausible. However, Poland is struggling with a relatively high emigration rate and low birth rate, and most recently with a strong anti-immigrant bias. That is not a good combination, in my opinion. If the Poles were very smart, they should be trying to attract skilled personal from the UK - Poland is definitely a country that can immensely profit from Britain tearing itself apart with that Brexit stunt.

Huntington had predicted in his book, "The Clash of the Civilizations" that the two emerging powers would be Poland and Turkey.

You're thinking of George Friedman there, not Samuel Huntington. It doesn't matter because the former is just as much a looney as the latter. Friedman had Poland go on a land grab in eastern Europe (imagine millions of Russians voluntarily become Polish citizens), and Turkey resurrecting the Ottoman Empire... how about "just no".

In any case, George Friedman is infamous for his predictive failures... and he just can't stop:
The Coming War with Japan (1992)
The next hundred years (2010)

 

[Tomenable]

Nice summary of the economic growth of Poland. The country has hardly any public debt, a very good education system, low income taxes and exports a higher percentage of its GDP than Germany.

To put it into perspective, in 1991 Poland was actually poorer than Ukraine.

GDP per capita (PPP) in 1991:

Poland - 5,916 $
Ukraine - 6,387 $

1990-1999 data: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=1999&locations=UA-PL&start=1990

1990-2004: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2004&locations=UA-PL&start=1990

1990-2017: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2017&locations=UA-PL&start=1990

Check also: https://www.reinisfischer.com/ukraine-vs-poland-gdp-1990-2012

But if you go back to 1950 (before Communism started negatively affecting Poland's economic growth), or back to 1929 (before the Great Depression, which hit Poland very hard), then Poland's GDP per capita was actually similar to Italian, Spanish, etc. So, currently Poland is returning to its relative wealth (vis-a-vis other countries) from Pre-Communist times.

 

[Tomenable]

Poland is struggling with a relatively high emigration rate and low birth rate, and most recently with a strong anti-immigrant bias. That is not a good combination, in my opinion. If the Poles were very smart, they should be trying to attract skilled personal from the UK - Poland is definitely a country that can immensely profit from Britain tearing itself apart with that Brexit stunt.

Some Poles in the UK and in Germany* are considering coming back to Poland, but there is still a huge gap in wages so I'm not sure how many of them will decide to do it. But I personally know some re-emigrants who lived in the UK for years and then came back to Poland and opened businesses here. They came even before Brexit, but surely Brexit will not slow down these returns - the opposite will most likely happen.

As for low birth rates, our government has introduced the "Family 500+" program which is supposed to help:

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?langId=en&catId=89&newsId=9104&furtherNews=yes

Another issue concerning birth rates - data from the UK shows, that Poles who live in the UK actually have above-replacement fertility rates (2.1 or something like this), higher than both native British people and than Poles in Poland. The explanation is easy - emigration from Poland in recent decades consisted mostly of young people, which reduced birthrates in Poland. But their birthrates abroad remained high.

So maybe if they re-emigrate to Poland, birthrates will increase (they will also bring their kids here).

As for strong anti-immigrant bias - yes, but this mostly applies to Muslim immigrants. We have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian immigrants here (since 2014) and there is less bias against them. However, I notice that some people also begin to complain about Ukrainians.

*​For example one of my cousins lives in Lower Saxony.

 

[Tomenable]

Some data about immigration to Poland: https://migracje.gov.pl/en/

There is also this thing called Karta Polaka, Polish Card, Polen-Karte:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karta_Polaka

From Wikipedia: Polish Card, is a document confirming belonging to the Polish nation, which may be given to individuals who cannot obtain dual citizenship in their own countries while belonging to the Polish nation according to conditions defined by law; and, who do not have prior Polish citizenship or permission to reside in Poland. It was established by an act of the Polish parliament dated 7 September 2007 called the Act on the Pole's Card (Ustawa o Karcie Polaka, Dz.U. 2007 no. 180/1280), which specifies the rights of the holder of the Card, the rules for granting, loss of validity and rescission of the Card, and the competencies of the public administration's bodies and procedures in these cases. The law came into force on 29 March 2008.

The Card can be granted to a person who declares "belonging to the Polish nation" and meets the following conditions:

1) Proves his/hers relationship with Polishness by at least a basic knowledge of the Polish language, along with knowledge and cultivating Polish traditions and habits;

2) In the presence of the consul of the Republic of Poland or an authorized employee of a Polish organisation submits a written declaration of belonging to "the Polish Nation";

3) Proves that at least one of his/her parents or grandparents or two great grandparents were of Polish nationality [= national identity] or had Polish citizenship, or present an attestation from a Polish or Polish diaspora organization acting on the territory of one of the above mentioned states, confirming that he or she has been actively involved in Polish linguistic and cultural activities within Polish community of their region for a period of at least the past three years.

^^^ So having "ethnically Polish" ancestry is not even among required conditions to obtain such Polish Card.

You can get it based on your willingness to live in Poland and having knowledge of the language and culture.

For example a Polish Jew living in Israel with ancestry from Poland might also be eligible to get this card.

But check the map below:

States whose citizens of Polish origin may apply for the Karta Polaka (red), as of 29 March 2008:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...px-Location_Polish_Charter_29_03_2008.svg.png

For some reason, we issue Polish Cards only to people in countries located to the East of us. I don't know why is this the case. In my opinion Poland should widen the scope and include also Germany, Czechia, France, Slovakia, Israel, the USA, Canada, Brazil, South Africa, etc. All places where people with ancestry from modern and historic Polish lands can be found.

Why does our law discriminate against people with Polish identity from these countries? When Poland first introduced Karta Polaka, Lithuanians complained that this Polish law violates the equality of legal entities in European Union's territory, because citizens of the Baltic states could obtain Karta Polaka, but Polish communities in France or Germany could not.

And I have to admit that Lithuanians are absolutely right in this case, it is offensive to their country that this law is specifically targeted at them (plus a few more countries) and not at all countries where Polish communities or people with ancestry from Poland can be found.

Technically, Karta Polaka is most useful for people from outside the EU. For inhabitants of the EU it is less useful because people with European Union's citizenship have a wide scope of rights in Poland anyway (even without having a Polish citizenship). However, we already offer Polish Cards to citizens of 3 EU states - Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia - so why not also to citizens of other EU states? This should be changed.

Originally, the idea of the Polish Card was invented for people who live in countries which do not allow dual citizenship (or where obtaining dual citizenship is very hard), so that they could get a Polish Card (easy solution) instead of trying to obtain Polish citizenship:

Dual citizenship laws by country: https://www.dualcitizenship.com/bycountry.html

Global map: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-145cdb0e45d735371b7881785eac83f2

Europe map:

 

[Tomenable]

and most recently with a strong anti-immigrant bias

But I think that the Polish society is more xenophobic than racist. What I mean is, that this bias is based mostly on cultural issues (or imagined / perceived cultural issues), rather than racial or ethnic issues. In other words, a Catholic Black African will be accepted more easily as an immigrant here than a white-looking Muslim.

And I don't think an ex-SJW like Rebecca Sommer will be more warmly welcomed in Poland than Muslim immigrants:

https://arbeitsgruppefluchtundmensc.../02/11/interview-with-rebecca-sommer-english/

There are rumours she plans to move to Poland?: https://www.infowars.com/german-refugee-worker-admits-she-was-wrong-plans-to-move-to-poland/

We are too right-wing for German SJWs, but also too progressive for White South Africans, who prefer to go to Russia:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...hite-south-african-farmers-seek-refuge-russia

"(...) A delegation of 30 South African farming families has arrived in Russia’s Stavropol region as the South African government continues to steal their land.The farmers who faced execution and violence in South Africa are ready to make a contribution to Russia’s booming agricultural sector, according to Rossiya 1. Each family is ready to bring up to $100,000 to help them lease the land required to add to Russia’s farming industry. Russia has around 43 million hectares of unused farmland, reported RT. The country has recently begun giving out free land to Russian citizens to cultivate farming. The land giveaway program, which began in 2014, has been a huge success. (...)"

^^^
Apparently some of them might be eligible to get Polish Cards, based on this:

http://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/7562.html

https://www.academia.edu/22401950/P..._of_early_Polish_immigration_on_Boer_families

 

[Tomenable]

The number of Polish immigrants became problem in France

Really?

I know that there are thousands of people with Polish ancestry in France, but AFAIK most of this emigration dates back to the 19th century and to the 20th century. As far as I know most of the Polonia in France are descended from political refugees, not economic migrants.

Polonia = Polish Diaspora: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_diaspora

According to many estimates France has over 1 million Poles or people with Polish ancestry.

I was not aware about any significant recent emigration to France. I thought these are descendants of older waves of emigration (just like the majority of Polish-Americans in the USA are descended from the wave of migration between years ca. 1850 and ca. 1920).

The oldest Polish settlement in the USA was established in Texas in 1854 by Poles from Upper Silesia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panna_Maria,_Texas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cestohowa,_Texas

 

[Yetos]

Tome,

expect to raise the state founds for military,

Poland is programmed to become 'rich'

as I said before, plan is already behind,

soon you will have also a quite interesting military industry.
and you will spend a lot for army,

 

[Rethel]

The country has hardly any public debt, a very good education system, low income taxes

 

[Tomenable]

This data confirms that Poles are only prejudiced against Muslims:

https://i.redd.it/bfg2ndh786fz.png

https://i.redd.it/dsph5tpfbdfz.png

https://i.redd.it/3pqyefuyf4m01.jpg

 

[Maciamo]

This data confirms that Poles are only prejudiced against Muslims:

https://i.redd.it/bfg2ndh786fz.png

https://i.redd.it/dsph5tpfbdfz.png

https://i.redd.it/3pqyefuyf4m01.jpg

Very interesting survey. It's amazing how the Czechs and Slovaks can be so prejudiced against all other races and religions. The Greeks and Cypriots are also oddly prejudiced against other races and the Jews.

Interestingly the Belgians and Italians responded almost identically on all questions. Belgians hold considerably more negative views of Muslims and gypsies than their immediate neighbours. It's rather surprising that the French have such positive views of Muslims after the numerous Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 3 years and the constant tensions in Muslim neighbourhoods, including the recurrent burning of hundreds or thousands of cars once in a while.

 

[D.L.M]

Very interesting survey. It's amazing how the Czechs and Slovaks can be so prejudiced against all other races and religions. The Greeks and Cypriots are also oddly prejudiced against other races and the Jews.

Interestingly the Belgians and Italians responded almost identically on all questions. Belgians hold considerably more negative views of Muslims and gypsies than their immediate neighbours. It's rather surprising that the French have such positive views of Muslims after the numerous Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 3 years and the constant tensions in Muslim neighbourhoods, including the recurrent burning of hundreds or thousands of cars once in a while.

Cypriots are genetically MENA themselves so it is quite ironic that they are uncomfortable with dating an Asian.

 

[Maciamo]

Cypriots are genetically MENA themselves so it is quite ironic that they are uncomfortable with dating an Asian.

I suppose that the term Asian has different meanings depending on who you ask. Some people imagine it to mean East Asian (+Siberian), others South Asians, and relatively few Europeans immediately think of Middle Eastern when they hear 'Asian people'. The survey would have been more interesting if they had divided these three racial groups of Asians to determine more specifically the racial prejudices found in each country.

I don't understand how over 10% of respondents in Central Europe said that they wouldn't be confortable with their children dating a White person. In many of these countries the population is >99.5% White (except Germany where it is about 98%). Does that mean that they are simply not confortable with their children dating anyone? Is that because they respondents have children too young to date? That would completely falsify the whole results as they would answer no to every question.

 

[martinmkp]

The survey about the European attitudes was widely commented on several Slovak internet discussion sites. I noticed many (majority) of Slovaks to express the shame of themselves commented the study. Here, I would say, that there is probably some kind of shallow visible xenophobic and probably rasist attitude of some Central Europeans towards muslims, for example. But, personally, in real life I do not see so many differences in thinking-style of Slovaks, Czechs or Austrians for example. What is the real difference, that Slovaks are responding in naive, "true" mode, they have not learned to speak so called "political or socially correctly". If they say " I do not want my daughter to marry muslim" it does not mean that such a marriage is prohibited in the family. On the contrary. Looking at the maps I have also a strong feeling that either the questions asked had slightly different meaning in different languages, and/or some nations are less prone to speak "correctly" as it is expected in "developed" society. I would bet that real feeling of other nationalities between Austrians and Slovaks (in villages and not urban areas) are very similar, if not the same. Vut look at the maps above - the picture is conpletely different. This phenomenon deserves probably a separate study.
Sorry for killing the discussion about future richnesses of Poland.

 

[Tomenable]

Very interesting survey. It's amazing how the Czechs and Slovaks can be so prejudiced against all other races and religions. The Greeks and Cypriots are also oddly prejudiced against other races and the Jews.

Interestingly the Belgians and Italians responded almost identically on all questions. Belgians hold considerably more negative views of Muslims and gypsies than their immediate neighbours. It's rather surprising that the French have such positive views of Muslims after the numerous Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 3 years and the constant tensions in Muslim neighbourhoods, including the recurrent burning of hundreds or thousands of cars once in a while.

Apparently EU identity is also rather weak in Czech Republic, with just 56% of Czechs identifying as EU citizens (not much more than in the UK which voted for Brexit, or in Greece with its economic problems for which many Greeks blame the EU):

https://www.huffingtonpost.gr/entry...anontai-eeropaioi_gr_5a39717de4b025f99e12db30

^^^
I'm surprised about Italy (especially considering much higher scores in Iberia and Malta).

 

[mihaitzateo]

If you take purchasing power, Czech Republik is one of the richest countries in Europe, more rich that Germany, on average.
Germany has a good standard of living only in Bavaria, Baden-Wurtemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate.
Poland on average if you take the salaries and prices is having a better standard of living that Germany.