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  1. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Picenes and the Genetic Landscape of Central Adriatic Italy in the Iron Age.

    From the thesis itself: "Notable, genetic outliers from the first period suggest potential Greek gene flow or incorporation of Greeks into the local Oenotrian population." And this aligns with what we've seen so far in central italy. These outliers presumably relate to one of the two pedigrees...
  2. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    People associate WHG ancesty with geographical northerness due to the fact that in modern populations, southern europeans have near 0% of it outside of Iberia, but it is retained more significantly in central europe and scandanavia in broad measure. It just so happens that WHG ancestry saw more...
  3. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    The problem with this type of thinking from linguists is that they assume languages are a perfect/near perfect proxy for autosomal genetic structure when it is not and has never been. The differences between the Modern N. Italians/IA Picene/Illyrian group vs the Latin/Tarquina Etruscan group is...
  4. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    It will always depend on what sources and calculator you use so it's all relative. That's the hard part with these discussions. Every single topic discussed either in good faith or bad hinges around the idea that participants are using the exact same limited source populations with the same...
  5. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    Which is again evidencing the idea that the original Proto-italics migrated not directly south from places like France, Austria or Southern Germany, but instead west, settling and moving through the Julian March from the direction of the Carpathian Basin before heavily diluting or displacing...
  6. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Picenes and the Genetic Landscape of Central Adriatic Italy in the Iron Age.

    Right. In this era the Magna Graecian colonies were still a blossoming demographic phenomenon and direct migrants from the aegean to these colonial cities would've been exceedingly common. This influx of Greek demography would continue until roughly the beginnings of the Alexandrian era from...
  7. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    I'm grateful that we're looking at as many as 200 samples but also somewhat disappointed that they don't cover the Middle Bronze Age to the Final Bronze Age. A lot of large archaeological shifts occur within said time frame. Thanks for posting.
  8. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Genetic Origin of the Indo-Europeans

    Hypothesis C seems much more likely to me than trying to claim that trace amounts of EHG which may or may not exist in BA Anatolia was responsible for a language overturn. The more reliable pattern I see is PIE speakers appearing after large sums of Caucasian introgression. The steppe simply...
  9. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    Yep. Northern Italics also have a little less Barcin as well in comparison.
  10. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Picenes and the Genetic Landscape of Central Adriatic Italy in the Iron Age.

    Yes. This implies that they are not random admixtures, but a distinct profile that existed in the EIA and some of these individuals ended up as merchants, slaves or various workers in foreign towns. The most obvious source to me here is Magna Graecian given the locations. There are likely...
  11. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    Yes, the Celts certainly were not as singular of an entity as many have assumed them to be. I don't disagree with you here. That being said I have qualms about the association of a supposed monoethnic Celtic identity with the Golaseccan/Lepontic peoples on the basis of fragmentary language...
  12. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    More Picene-like than the Etruscans that have been reported on so far, yes. Northern Etruscans in Po valley remain to be seen until this study comes out in full. In my opinion it's very possible Felsina could also be Picene-like or perhaps somewhere between Picene like and the Etruscans of...
  13. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    I think the urban graveyard effect typically reduces genetic variability over time at the exclusion of foreign elements which is what we seem to be seeing with this study and many others in contrast to the cumulative effect theory. Effectively without a substantial colonization to drastically...
  14. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Picenes and the Genetic Landscape of Central Adriatic Italy in the Iron Age.

    The firmly southern Italian-like outliers for the Piceni and Dauni are rather interesting to note due to their age. From my recollection we also see two of these types of outliers in the Kerkouane study when looking at the IA Etruscans. They do not look Sicani drifted at all like most of the...
  15. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    I agree and have rejected the idea that modern northern Italians derive any significant admixture from these invasions, as well as the idea that they were large enough to dwarf the already large Etruscan/Etruscan related populations living in Po valley. Similar to the Germanic Langobards, the...
  16. Vitruvius

    Genetic study The Genetic Origin of the Indo-Europeans

    I've often times linked the S. Caucasus with the bronze age anatolian languages as well. Based on calculator results it has always seemed to me like steppe ancestry derives from a more northerly Caucasian origin where as the BA/IA Anatolian/Mycenaean/Imperial roman pull of Caucasian ancestry...
  17. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    I would presume Gauls of varying types just based off location, but truth be told that's just a guess. There isn't exactly a protohistoric record of this event, but the abstract/thesis seems to suggest archaeological evidence of material exchange between the two groups. That being said the...
  18. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    So in theory they should be at least similar to the more southerly IA Etruscans of Tarquina. It will be interesting to see if this means that there is a direct overlap or if it's a partial overlap, similar to the location of the Picenes.
  19. Vitruvius

    Genetic study Population changes in northern Italy from the Iron Age to Modern Times

    Thanks for posting this thesis, Francesco. Does anyone have access to the full PDF? From the abstract it reads such that the Etruscans of Felsina had a distinct local profile with a couple of C./N. European like outlier samples which seem to have unexpectedly and drastically reduced in number...
  20. Vitruvius

    Immigration Sweden or how to destroy a country through poor immigration policy

    Our Greco-Roman identity is not going anywhere and we are not apologizing for gracing earth with the two greatest civilizations known to man. The nations of Italy and Greece do not exist for the benefit of migrants and I will happily continue to oppose the creed, culture, will and human...
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